Worried About Coronavirus- thread 38

[TheStarryNight]

New thread

[NervousInYorkshire]

^ sorry my last post was quite long and whiny! Just to be clear; I'm grateful that I'm not being left to starve; it's just really difficult if there's specific stuff you can't eat.

[HeIenaDove]

//www.rochdale.gov.uk/news/Pages/first-coronavirus-food-parcels-leave-bad-taste.aspx

First coronavirus food parcels for most vulnerable leave a bad taste in the mouth
30 March 2020

The contents of a sample food parcel.

The council is taking steps to improve the quality of the government food parcels for people most at risk from coronavirus after the first batch arrived in the borough.

The food boxes are for people who are being shielded from coronavirus and cannot leave their homes because severe health conditions leave them most vulnerable to the virus.

The government said the packages would contain essential food and household items such as pasta, fruit, tinned goods and biscuits, for those who need to self-isolate at home for 12 weeks but have no support network of family or friends to help them.

The parcels that arrived in the borough of Rochdale on Monday, 30 March 2020, however, contained tea bags, cordial, 1 apple, chocolate bars, dry noodles and gingerbread biscuits. There were also only 44 delivered, despite there being 129 people in the borough who are being shielded and have requested an emergency parcel. In other parts of the country the parcels have included ready meals and more nutritionally-balanced items.

To improve the quality of the parcels the council is adding extra items, including bread, milk and a selection of tinned meat and fruit. The council is currently contacting each of these shielded residents on the list to ask if they need additional help and support.

After seeing the parcels council leader Allen Brett is calling on the government to do more to improve the quality of what is being provided: "Everyone appreciates that this is an unprecedented situation but the parcels that have been provided were not of the quality we were expecting. Thankfully our council officers are able to source food locally and add them to the packs to ensure that those receiving them have a better choice of items.

'We are doing all that we can, I expect government to do the same'
"It's not clear to me why people in some parts of the country are getting pre-prepared meals and our citizens are getting tea bags, biscuits and cordial. We were also 83 parcels short so we've had to create those ourselves, which we are doing. The people receiving these parcels are likely to be alone and quite possibly afraid so there must be a greater effort to provide them with everything they need to get through this. We are doing all that we can, I expect government to do the same."

The improved parcels will be issued by council staff who are working around the clock to protect the most vulnerable. The council is already delivering much needed food parcels to other vulnerable and isolated residents who have requested assistance through our helpline. 4 hubs have been set up in each part of the borough, along with a dedicated phone line for anyone who needs support.

The hubs can be reached by phone on 01706 923685.

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Add message | Report | Message posterHeIenaDove Mon 04-May-20 16:27:18
//www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/11-kit-kats-11-tins-18099530

*11 Kit Kats, 11 tins of beans and 10 bottles of cordial in government food package to area with thousands in need

[ToffeeYoghurt]

No veg and little protein (particularly for vegetarians)? Why can't they get fresh veg? Lots of farm shops and local grocery stores are doing veg boxes. If the councils really can't for some reason manage that why not include tinned veg? Healthy proteins. Some lentils and nuts shouldn't be too difficult. Vegetarians could get soya or quorn. Nothing difficult to source.

I've been saying on another thread how we need the media to ask some questions about (the lack of) early Covid treatment. It's a major scandal that's being mostly overlooked. It's a major part of why we have around 30,000 deaths. One of the highest in the world, higher than many poorer countries (who are, unlike us, doing all they can to save lives).

Countries with lower death rates are treating early. Oxygen and antivirals, and antibiotics to prevent secondary bacterial infections. We have patients refused admittance to hospital. They're dying at home or only admitted at ICU stage when survival is less likely.

We need to call this out. To stop it happening. It's particularly urgent to do so before any second wave. We can't go back in time but we can learn from past mistakes.

I've realised early treatment is one reason why some countries are risking easing their lockdowns. Some places have high numbers of cases but low amount of deaths. It's early treatment that makes all the difference. Why are we letting patients die instead of treating them?

[ToffeeYoghurt]

The lack of timely treatment scandal. It's particularly galling given we have nurses posting on threads about having no work to do.

We've been told the nightingales had to turn away desperately in need patients (some of whom subsequently died) due to lack of staff. Why aren't the self described thumb twiddling HCP being sent from less affected areas to the hard hit ones. Then patients might get treatment at a stage survival was likely.

Alternatively, if the nightingales aren't equipped for some treatments, why don't we follow suit of Germany and transfer patients to hospitals in quieter areas for their much needed urgent treatment? Germany even took in patients from its neighbours including France.

We have an extremely high death rate. Very much a major cause of this is the failure to treat patients (until a stage when it's often too late).

[RedToothBrush]

Alternatively, if the nightingales aren't equipped for some treatments, why don't we follow suit of Germany and transfer patients to hospitals in quieter areas for their much needed urgent treatment?

If we had done this with the PPE shortages we had and lack of staff testing, we would have had a different problem on our hands.

[HeIenaDove]

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/dave-greenfield-death-coronavirus-stranglers-age-cause-hospital-covid-19-a9498501.html

[ToffeeYoghurt]

RTB, So is the reality that we have pretty much no capacity at all? Not enough PPE, possibly not enough staff, too few tests? Basically a complete myth that the NHS is coping well. The 'capacity' is because patients aren't being treated (with many dying as a consequence).

Goodness. If we can't treat patients during lockdown, heaven knows what will happen in any second wave!

Why are countries poorer than us managing to test and treat early? We need to get our capacity, be it antivirals, PPE, oxygen, staff or anything else, (genuinely) sorted before thinking of easing lockdown.

If we gave very early treatment, antivirals, precautionary antibiotics, for example, some of this can be managed at home. They did this in Germany and I assume other countries do it too. That should at least slightly reduce the demand for PPE.

It would also help if we (finally) implemented some form of checks or quarantine at our airports. Non essential flights arriving daily with nothing in place whatsoever.

[ToffeeYoghurt]

How sad Helena
Also a good example to show all those people who fail to understand why non urgent non Covid work has had to be postponed. He died from Covid after catching it IN hospital.

With the lack of timely Covid treatment issue. Is it not very important that this is talked about? We're being told and the papers are reporting it as fact that the 'nhs is coping well'. People need to know that's only because people aren't getting early and effective treatment. Hence the very high death rate.

We need the government to finally get on with getting hold of the PPE, the antivirals. People think there's little that can be done. Other countries clearly demonstrate early treatment including with antivirals can be fairly effective.

[HeIenaDove]

Always loved this track

[HeIenaDove]

Channel 4 news....................a Head and Deputy Head have had to put 5 grand each on their own credit cards due to mass failure of food voucher scheme.

[CrunchyCarrot]

Taking thyroxine when it is not clinically indicated can increase your risk of cardiac arrhythmias such as AF, stroke and osteoporosis. Yes it helps you lose weight but there are good reasons it is not given out as a diet pill. It's only supposed to be for replacement of pathologically low thyroid hormone, not to boost your levels above normal

I wouldn't normally respond to this as it's OT for this thread, but I really feel I must to clear up a misconception. I don't know anyone who went to their GP to get thyroxine for weight loss. They all went because they had unbearable hypo symptoms - terrible fatigue and very many others I won't list. I was diagnosed (fortunately) with a TSH of 4.95. The current 'range' for TSH is not right and many people are suffering because they cannot get a trial of Levo, and instead are palmed off with anti-depressants if they don't know any better (depression is a symptom of hypo). TSH should be in the 1 region, not 3, not 5 and certainly not 10! It's scandalous and I will speak out about it wherever I can.

/rant

[WhoWants2Know]

That's interesting. My TSH was recently measured at 5 and instead of treating it the GP recommend I do a couch to 5K. (And said having exercise induced asthma is no excuse, as he's asthmatic and just ran a half marathon.)

This wasn't for depression or weight loss, btw. It was because I can't stay awake and before lockdown I was worried about falling asleep when stopped in traffic.

Sorry, I know I'm continuing a tangent, I'm just bitter.

[RedToothBrush]

AFP news agency @AFP
Italy recorded almost 50 percent more fatalities in March than usual, according to new official data showing that the real coronavirus death toll could be far higher than the 29,000 reported

news.yahoo.com/italy-struggles-explain-surge-march-coronavirus-deaths-165730991.html
Italy baffled by unexplained surge in deaths during virus crisis

Italy recorded almost 50 percent more fatalities in March than usual, according to new official data showing that the real coronavirus death toll could be far higher than the 29,000 reported.

The new data suggest that the death toll from the day the country's first infection was reported on February 20 to March 31 could be nearly double the official figure.

[Newjez]

Ds has just gone to A&E with chest pain when he is breathing. No other systems. Can't be CV19. I'm highly vulnerable and we have been in extreme lockdown for eight weeks. We get all grocery delivered and we wash it. Wash all post and deliveries. The kids do go for short walks, but they go at night when it's quiet.
More scared that he will pick up CV19 in hospital than what is actually wrong with him.

[RedToothBrush]

Newjez, I have a friend who I'd lost contact with who ended up in ICU with covid despite not having the typical symptoms.

She ended up being blue lighted only after she had breathing problems.

[RedToothBrush]

Paris doctor says patient had virus at the end of December

A new French study has found that COVID-19 was already spreading in France in late December 2019, a month before the official first cases were declared in the country.

Dr. Yves Cohen, the head of an intensive care department at a hospital in Paris, told French television BFMTV on Sunday that the virus was present at their hospital in the north of Paris on Dec. 27. Dr. Cohen and his team re-examined medical records of intensive care patients admitted for influenza-like illness who tested negative for flu and other coronaviruses between Dec. 2, 2019 and Jan. 16, 2020.

Out of the 58 patients included in their analysis, one 42-year-old man admitted on Dec. 27 tested positive for COVID-19. The man, a native of Algeria, lived in France for many years and worked as a fishmonger. His last trip was in Algeria during August 2019, the study found. The study notes that it has several limitations due to the retrospective nature of the analyses and the non-exhaustive medical records of their patients, but the study was carried out by two teams with two different techniques to “avoid any false positive results.”

The group of doctors concluded that the “new case changes our understanding of the epidemic and modeling studies should adjust to this new data.”

www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/live-blog/2020-05-04-coronavirus-news-n1199156/ncrd1199231#liveBlogHeader

And france language source

www.bfmtv.com/sante/coronavirus-le-professeur-cohen-affirme-qu-il-y-avait-un-cas-de-covid-19-en-france-des-le-27-decembre-1906757.html

[Keepdistance]

Is that contactless dropping of shopping. i believe we caught something from a delivery guy he must bave been over a meter away. a

Re the thyroid. I also have asthma. Also exercise induced. But i find thyroxine generally helps me sleep.

Interesting re paris but really doesnt surprise me in fact i would be more shocked if it hadnt got out of wuhan.
All the mn threads about people thinking they had it nov etc last yr. I live near a big city with 2 unis. Caught something off my dad though who had it late nov. (Cotswolds) where i believe a lot of chinese visitors go to buy stuff. We werent seriously ill but by jan i had awful conjunctivitis literally oozing. there are flights from the city to venice etc.
Surely some of the uk hotspots are round airports? Or maybe university cities?

Toffee i agree with you about all that. Early treatment or any treatment.
In fact gov basically said in their plans we would be left to die at home and some people would be looke ed to put their family member out of pain.
Learn from germany - coronataxis people monitoring the sats of people and giving oxygen. Their plan also stated there would be no antivirals given. Not sure if we dont have them though there should have been a brexit store or if countries were going to hang onto them.
Imo the gov should get treated in the way they are treating us and they have not. Theyve been tested. They got early treatment -incl nadine dorries.
We cant even find out if we have it to encoyrage us to distsnce more in the house from family.
Also surely we would have exceeded capacity if all those people hadnt died as they could still have been in icu weeks later. We did refuse treatment to care home residents (rightly or wrongly) and told people they should consider a DNR.

[ToffeeYoghurt]

@Newjez I'm sorry about your son. I hope both of you are ok and wish him a good recovery. It's far safer to be in hospital now whilst we're in lockdown.

Keepdistance I didn't realise the government were openly admitting a eugenics plan. I also hoped it was negligence rather than intentional. It's sickening. And something I wish the media would focus on. It's the only way things can change. How shameful.

Is any other country denying treatment? The antivirals aren't miracles but they're certainly helping in many patients if given early.

There's definitely potential for legal cases if it's a deliberate policy (and if negligence in fact). It's disproportionately affecting men, over 50s, and the BAME community. People with underlying conditions too. So that's sex, age disability, and race discrimination.

[Keepdistance]

Yes someone said Australia was sending a pac out to over 70s incl antivirals.
Couldnt we consider treating all 40+ once confirmed. Especially if any health issues.
And i would have taken more of a stance on vit d as scotland and ireland have done.
Problem is that the people who get it worse likely sprwad it more due to stronger symptoms. So areas with say elderly or high bme populations are then spreading it more and perpetuating the issue.
To be fair though the one thing at the start the gov couldnt have known was a racial minority effect as all data from china and not sure it was picked up in italy. Though if it is made worse by cramped living conditions and deprivation etc in geographical area s that could have been predicted.

[ToffeeYoghurt]

To an extent they should have known it would disproportionately affect the BAME community. A contagious virus was very obviously going to affect urban areas of high population with high density housing worse.

They also even now continue to have non essential flights arriving daily at Heathrow with no checks or quarantine.

They would know more of the BAME community live in urban areas than in rural more spread out places. I remember reading back in January or February experts predicting it would hit London harder than most other places in Europe.

They would certainly have seen the data from China, and then Italy on age and sex. They would've known it was affecting people over 40 worse, and known the disproportionate affect on men.

We can't go back but we can and should be doing everything we can to sort the mess our from now onwards. That means getting hold of enough PPE, antivirals, antibiotics (to prevent secondary infections), oxygen. And immunosuppressants, which can help when patients suffer an immune overreaction.

[changemind]

I don't know what BAME is but yes I was terrified living in the city, till it actually happened. I knew the streets would be all garden drinking parties. It is scary but feel far safer using masks. Have been thinking about eye protection though.

[ToffeeYoghurt]

changemind Black Asian and Minority Ethnic.

It is scary but we should be reassured to see most people are taking precautions, socially distancing, practising good hygiene. Masks definitely provide some protection. It helps protect others as well if the wearer is (possibly unknowingly) contagious. They don't give complete protection but they help.

I'd guess eye protection, whilst obviously an extra layer of protection, isn't necessary for things like shops (as long as people are socially distancing), going out for walks, etc. Perhaps something to think about for very close up contact where there's a risk of droplets going into the eye. HCP treating Covid-19 patients need eye protection.

[RedToothBrush]

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-05-01/-false-dawn-recovery-haunts-virus-survivors-who-fall-sick-again?__twitter_impression=true
‘False Dawn’ Recovery Haunts Virus Survivors Who Fall Sick Again

Worth reflecting on this when considering whether the UK has done well or poorly in the long term.

Officials in countries that managed to suppress an initial wave of the pandemic are dreading the possibility that the virus may have a seasonal pattern and could return in the fall and repeat the nightmare scenario.

Hospitals already strained beyond their limits could see further demand if patients return. It also poses long-term implications for social safety nets and insurers as some struggle with the lingering effects of the coronavirus on their day-to-day life and health. Severe cases that require ventilators and ICU stays would need continued follow-up care as they recover from the ordeal, further pressuring health-care systems.

There can also be a growing psychological cost. Governments may try to isolate survivors for longer in fear that they are still infectious, adding more anxiety to patients already suffering from the uncertainty of when they will be deemed healthy again.

“A lot of patients will suffer mental health issues,” said Michelle Biehl, a critical-care pulmonary doctor at Cleveland Clinic in Ohio. “They’ll have anxiety, depression, PTSD.”

As the number of recovered patients expand, the burden will begin to shift down the medical practice chain, Biehl said. More primary care doctors, mental health specialists and physical therapists will be seeing survivors.

“You send them home and what happens then?” asked Maldonado. “From the outpatient side, we’re just starting to get to that point where we’re seeing people in the longer term.”

And

There’s consensus that so-called herd immunity is key to ending the pandemic, but with a vaccine unlikely to be widely available this year, it will depend on factors such as how long people who’ve recovered have immunity and what percentage of people must be immune to protect the “herd.”

[RedToothBrush]

www.buzzfeed.com/richholmes/coronavirus-uk-assaults-emergency-workers?bftwuk&utm_term=4ldqpgm#4ldqpgm
Assaults On UK Emergency Workers Are Rising, Even As Other Crimes Are Falling
Leaked data shows that during a four-week period starting in mid-March, police recorded 300 cases of “coughing or spitting on emergency workers”.

[Keepdistance]

Re the coughing on. I notice with my dc that when unwell they lose inhibitions (possible adhd). Notably with flu spray - live vax. Dd2 was blowing raspberries and put a door handle in her mouth when ill a few weeks ago and dd1 coughed at me. So imo whilst still obviously inexcusable it may not be intentional in the sense that if the people were not unwell they might not be doing it. It would be interesting to see what % of those doing this have covid (as in is is causing a loss of inhibitions) and maybe asd/adhd.
Certainly if you are happy hypoxic it makes sense you behaviour might be affected whilst also being rather zombie movie that these people are intentionally infecting others