Worried About Coronavirus- thread 38

[TheStarryNight]

New thread

There is no way everyone will tolerate this for more than another few weeks. I see more and more teenagers out every day and I can’t blame them.

That's what I thought too Marsha A&E has capacity for non Covid emergencies. Sorry I wasn't very clear in my previous post. I think there's reports of people too scared to go to A&E and possibly some might die as a result, which is awful. It's such an understandable fear but a shame they don't realise it's likely far safer whilst we're in lockdown. When it's lifted, especially if too early, that's when it could be more dangerous being in A&E, and when we have no capacity (both because of sheer numbers of ill people and so many staff off sick).

I had a text telling me to seek help for non-Covid symptoms

This was it from my surgery. Says to phone 999 as for 'normal' emergencies

Toffee yes I agree.

I’ve been thinking about 111 and partly it is a cost cutting exercise and not entirely fit for purpose but also we did not understand the virus well enough. There was an excellent post on the oximeter thread posting a NYT article on why when we present for breathlessness it’s too late. He says there’s a simple solution an oximeter. I bought one last week which felt odd but now glad.

We didn’t know this, now we do god hope we are not so slow and bureaucratic and cheap that we can’t change the level of triage.

I’m assuming 111 is tracking data from locations of people contacting with symptoms so even though they’re not testing the community they’re still keeping an eye on things in that way.

I can’t work out why they go on about doing all this now to prevent a second peak and then say we’re currently at the peak. It can only mean we have much bigger waves to come?

Did you hear prof witty on press conference today say he didn’t expect a vaccine to reach us for at least a year and we’d have to get used to some kind of social distancing until there’s either a vaccine or treatment and when the press man pressed further he started back tracking a bit and trying to make it sound better than we’d have to have social distancing measures of some kind in place for likely a year, but effectively that’s what he said.

From Newsnight's Nicholas Watt:

: I am told that a very tense meeting of the executive of the Conservative backbench committee 1922 has just concluded. Every Tory MP at the meeting and every MP who dialled in expressed deep concern at the impact of the lockdown on business. Am told the sentiment at the 1922 was: unless the lockdown starts to be lifted soon the UK may not have much of a functioning economy to come back to. Fears expressed that thousands upon thousands of businesses could soon go under. Some members of the 1922 executive believe the lockdown needs to be relaxed after the first week of May. ‘If we don’t do that we really will see thousands of businesses go under,’ one 1922 member tells me. The meeting heard that the govt has achieved its main goal - the NHS has not been overwhelmed. But that should not mean no change to the lockdown. There will continue to be infections, UK will have to learn to live with this virus for two maybe three years, meeting heard.

Am told govt messaging on Coronavirus described by one 1922 member as ‘ludicrous’. Great interest in suggestion by Carl Heneghan that peak of deaths was 8 April, indicating that fall in infections came when initial social distancing and hygiene measures introduced before lockdown.

One 1922 member tells me: ‘Social distancing and hygiene measures were the key. We should follow the government guidance. If you can’t work at home then you can go to work if observe social distancing and hygiene....1922 member added: ‘...Focus on that rather than the ludicrous government messaging. That drowns out the actual guidance’

I honestly wouldn't want to be in Dominic Raab/Boris Johnson's shoes (/carpet slippers) at the moment. I hope and pray our leaders make the best decisions possible under the circumstances. Whatever the best decisions may be, I don't know.

Money first thing on their minds.

Yes I know they are interlinked but still

I hate people sometimes. Sighhhh

Covid-19 causes sudden strokes in young adults, doctors say

From CNN

The new coronavirus appears to be causing sudden strokes in adults in their 30s and 40s who are not otherwise terribly ill, doctors reported Wednesday.

They said patients may be unwilling to call 911 because they have heard hospitals are overwhelmed by coronavirus cases.

There's growing evidence that Covid-19 infection can cause the blood to clot in unusual ways, and stroke would be an expected consequence of that.

Dr. Thomas Oxley, a neurosurgeon at Mount Sinai Health System in New York, and colleagues gave details of five people they treated. All were under the age of 50, and all had either mild symptoms of Covid-19 infection or no symptoms at all.

"The virus seems to be causing increased clotting in the large arteries, leading to severe stroke," Oxley told CNN.

"Our report shows a seven-fold increase in incidence of sudden stroke in young patients during the past two weeks. Most of these patients have no past medical history and were at home with either mild symptoms (or in two cases, no symptoms) of Covid," he added.

"All tested positive. Two of them delayed calling an ambulance."

Other doctors have also reported that people are reluctant to call 911 or go to emergency rooms because of the pandemic.

It is not common for people so young to have strokes, especially strokes in the large vessels in the brain.

"For comparison, our service, over the previous 12 months, has treated on average 0.73 patients every 2 weeks under the age of 50 years with large vessel stroke," the team wrote in a letter to be published in the New England Journal of Medicine. That's fewer than two people a month.

A stroke in a large blood vessel causes severe damage if it is not removed right away. At least one patient has died, and others are in rehabilitation facilities, intensive care or in the stroke unit. Only one went home but will require intense care, Oxley said.

"The average person who has a large vessel stroke is severely impaired," Oxley said. "It means it a bigger clot. It includes one of the largest arteries in the brain."

Brain cells die when blood flow is stopped, and the longer it's blocked, the wider the damage in the brain. Quick treatment is vital. "The most effective treatment for large vessel stroke is clot retrieval, but this must be performed within 6 hours, and sometimes within 24 hours," Oxley said.

Oxley said his team wanted to tell people to watch themselves for symptoms of coronavirus infection and to call 911 if they have any evidence of stroke.

"Up until now, people have been advised to only call for an ambulance with shortness of breath or high fever," he wrote.

The easy memory device for stroke, he said, is "FAST": F for face drooping, A for arm weakness, S for speech difficulty and T for time to call 911.

The 1922 committee clearly have more money than sense. Certainly they have no foresight. Yes the wealthy business leaders they care about are more protected than most from Covid. Note I know not all business leaders are wealthy and I'm specifically referring to their cronies and the super wealthy (Richard Branson.being an especially wealthy example). They don't live in cramped high density housing, they don't need to use crowded public transport or pack like sardines into offices. In their minds it's only the poor who will suffer the most. And the poor are expendable to them. The disproportionate impact on BAME communities? Doesn't bother this lot. And we already know their attitude towards people who are unwell or disabled.

But morals aside, they haven't really thought it through have they. What do they think happens to the economy when we have the second wave they seem determined to bring about. A wave that experts predict will be far worse than the current one. What do they think our handling of the pandemic will do to our international reputation - crucially in terms of attractiveness for other countries to trade with and visit. I mentioned the other day what someone living in Iceland said. They won't want to come here and their borders will be shut to us because we'll be the infected country to avoid.

I've also noticed some posters refer to other countries when pushing for an early end to lockdown. We can't compare. Germany has an excellent well funded healthcare system with far more capacity than us. They treat early and they've been testing and testing and testing. They've also made it compulsory for the public to wear masks. We don't even have enough masks for our frontline workers. France. Far stricter lockdown than us, they went into it sooner and are not planning to exit it until it's safer to do so. Perhaps that's why their death rate is half what ours is. And in case anyone refers to it, yes they're having some riots in the Paris suburbs. But they were having riots before Covid. It's more to do with social problems and deprivation in those areas than the pandemic.

We have already around 41,000 Covid deaths. We're the shame and embarrassment of the world right now. The priority before any talk of ending lockdown should be sorting out the shambles of a response so far. Get more tests (ones that work this time), get enough PPE for staff, get masks for the public, have enough staff to treat Covid patients, actually use the temporary hospitals instead of telling people to wait until a stage where survival is less likely. Early treatment is key. Then, and only then, would we be at the stage of easing lockdown.

I wonder, the 1922 committee members. Will they travel through London and sit in close proximity to other MPs in the house of commons if they lift lockdown prematurely? Or will they stick with a virtual houses of parliament whilst the general public take the risks?

Good post toffee

I think they will relax lock down after these three weeks are up. They are hinting at it enough and already I'm seeing lots more people out and about-with no reaction on that from the press and no real strong reiteration of the stay home message from government. Think they feel they have the NHS nearly where they wanted it in terms of prep and now feel free to release the herd and see what happens with the immunity.

Excellent post Toffee.

... no real strong reiteration of the stay home message from government.

I've noticed that the 'Stay Home' advert's frequency has dropped. It used to be on at least once an ad break, but isn't now. I think I saw it once during Location last night.

Anyone come across this? My DP pointed it out to me last night, he's a techie sort so reads this type of article. It appears that 128 fake NHS staff accounts have been discovered, using real NHS staff profile pictures. The accounts were all operated by one individual, who is connected to an official govt department.

skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/

I think i came across about something about that on twitter crunchy. Will see if i can find it.

I knew about 'NHS Susan', but hadn't seen the scale of it. However, while some of us think that it and the Cambridge Analytica issue are scandals, the evidence is that the public at large, in general, don't give a shit. Certainly not in big enough numbers to cause a massive outcry or to stop voting Conservative as a result.

What are the fake accounts tweeting about?

Well here's a curveball

Donald Trump has told Georgia’s Republican governor that he “strongly” disagrees with his decision to reopen the US state’s economy, saying it was “totally egregious” to open spas, beauty salons and tattoo parlours.

“Spas and beauty salons and tattoo parlours and barber shops in phase one . . . is just too soon,” the president said. “I told the governor very simply that I disagree with his decision, but he has to do what he thinks is right.”

The warning contrasted with Mr Trump’s call just days ago for people to “liberate” Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia

I've read about the fake NHS Twitter accounts. A further twist now being discussed is that the accounts were set up by an ultra left wing group/individual deliberately to give the impression they were set up by someone connected to the government. I really don't know what to think other than it's like something out of a spy movie. And using a real NHS nurse's face but with a different name is despicable. I hope to hell an investigation gets to the truth.

Strokes in Covid-19 patients is consistent with it being a vascular rather than purely respiratory disease.

Also, it may explain some deaths in patients not diagnosed with covid-19 (as they have no other symptoms). Especially in older age groups more at risk of strokes. And why they are dying without going to a and e first.

I've just read something about how they have tested the waste water in Brisbane for virus. The idea is to try and get an idea of how widespread the disease is. There was some debate over how reliable this was as a measure, but it did appear to be roughly about the same as estimates. What was more interesting was it turns out the Dutch also did something similar. They found traces of the disease in wastewater BEFORE they had confirmed cases of the disease.

"We think that with this detection system in the sewer system we can determine the spread of the coronavirus in a region," says Gertjan Medema, microbiologist at KWR and also affiliated with the TU Delft Health Technology Group. "That may prove its worth these weeks, but we especially think that we can follow through the sewers next winter whether the corona virus reappears or is still around."

If the measuring system comes into operation on some or even all of the more than two hundred sewage treatment plants in the Netherlands, the sewer can act as an early-warning system, with which it can be seen at an early stage whether it is floating around. "It can provide a quicker and cheaper picture of corona contamination in a city or region, and already give a signal before doctors test tens of thousands of people with cotton swabs in the hospital." The sewer test is still too crude to say 'we are testing 100 virus units in the sewer in Amersfoort, so 39 people have been infected there ', says the microbiologist.

The Dutch measurements in the sewer run horribly parallel to the spread of the virus according to the tests with cotton buds in March. In early February, the sewer researchers found none of the four coronagen fragments they derived from the genetic code that Chinese scientists had made public.

On March 5, more than a week after the first patients arrived in Noord-Brabant, a number of installations already found one of the coronagen particles. In Amersfoort, coronavirus was already in the sewer that day, while no patient had yet been registered in that city. Ten days later, the lights of several corona particles lit up in seven of the eight installations.

In Delft and Amersfoort, researchers identified two corona gene fractions. They found three in Amsterdam-West, Schiphol and Tilburg and in Utrecht even all four available gene fractions. Only in Coevorden was only one fraction visible.

www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/nog-voor-artsen-het-doorhebben-vertelt-ons-rioolwater-waar-het-coronavirus-toeslaat~bddcfa73/?referer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FEY81S4sBqU&utm_source=link&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=shared%20content&utm_content=free
Source.

They used this method successfully to help during a polio outbreak in 1992 and 1993 so it has precedent.

In case you are wondering they've also tested drinking water and it's not present in that, so sewage processing is effective.

I do wonder if we are doing anything like this in the UK.

Taylor Wimpey, one of Britain’s biggest housebuilding companies, has announced work on its construction sites will restart from May 4th

It’s the first of the major house builders to announce that construction will restart.