No vaccine please

[Scienceisgreat76]

I have decided not to have the vaccine for coronavirus when it is rolled out. I don’t trust the government and will not be used as a pilot. It seems this will be a rushed vaccine (tested-yes) but we will not know the long term side effects until years down the line. I will politely decline the vaccine until I feel fully informed. Anyone else declining it?

No. Nice try. The government strategy was to nudge people into social distancing, working from home etc etc. And it didn't work. Mainly because it didn't back that up with compensation for people who would lose out. But also because many people thought it didn't apply to their situation. Look at the knobheads clapping on Westminster Bridge the other night.

I don't think I'll want the virus. I think I've had cv and wasn't too bad for me. If I was in the vulnerable group though, particularly if older and in the vulnerable group, I'd be tempted to have it. If my mum catches cb she'll probably die, so worth having the vaccine so she can lead a normal life again. Quality of life will.outway possible cons to the vaccine. For me, if I catch CV again I think I'll be fine, so I'd rather catch CV than have the vaccine.

Everyone will have to weigh up the pros and cons for them

I mean I don't think I'll want the vaccine!

bellinisurge

No. Nice try. The government strategy was to nudge people into social distancing, working from home etc etc. And it didn't work. Mainly because it didn't back that up with compensation for people who would lose out.

Given Cummings well publicised disgust for the “ignorant poor” U.K. population I don’t think it ever was the govts strategy to rely on the public to manage this pandemic.
Their strategy was to let the virus burn through the population and die out.
That was changed when up to date stats from Italy demonstrated that hundreds of thousands would die.

Too soon to make a decision for me OP.

I'd want to know how effective the vaccine is. Some of the winter flu ones are pretty low.

If this country ever does some serious testing and we find out how many people have had asymptomatic cases, then we can work out what the real risk is from the virus.

I'm surprised anyone is confident either way at this point. We're so short of reliable data.

That was changed when up to date stats from Italy demonstrated that hundreds of thousands would die.

Or that the NHS wouldn't cope more likely. Do the government care if people die? I know what I think the answer to that is.

For goodness sake. The claims that the H1N1 vaccine was not safe is ridiculous. The NHS site referenced further upstream finds that the additional risk of developing the condition in question (Guillain-Barré syndrome) is 1 person in 500000. Of those it's serious/fatal for 1 in 20 and most recover in 10 months. Asumming 68million people in the UK that's 34 cases, and less than two instances in the uk population. That is hardly "dangerous" or "unsafe".

www.nhs.uk/news/medication/swine-flu-vaccine-link-to-deadly-nerve-condition/

I'm with OP , who clearly has a finger on the pulse of logic ,scientific reasoning and public health.

Pop over to mine (don't worry about all this social distancing nonsense it's only big pharma trying to scare us into thinking we all need their drugs) .. I've made a big vat of sheep droppings and chicken shit.. it's a magic potion , 100% guaranteed reliable. Kills all viruses.. we will 'build our immune system' together... what do the worlds top scientists know about a vaccine ?

Only about 80-90% of people need the vaccine for herd immunity to take effect. So it’s okay for 10% of people to be nutty refuseniks.

I'm surprised anyone is confident either way at this point. We're so short of reliable data.

I doubt anyone is confident. You're right, it's too soon for decisions to be made - by the developers of vaccines, by governments and health authorities. And it's certainly too early for anyone else to be saying whether they will or won't be having the vaccine (When and if) it's rolled out.

It may be that if there are significant advances in other treatments few or none of us will. Or it could be that there's some other development which means we'll be keener than we might be at present.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

That won't work as you've missed out an essential ingredient. For it to be 100% you must add droppings from a bat.

bellinisurge

Yawn. Herd immunity isn't about freedom of choice. It's about a sufficient number of people not being selfish and ignorant so that the virus doesn't pass easily through the community.

Wrong.
Herd immunity is not gaining immunity through having the virus. As that is not a given.
It’s the virus burning itself out as it runs out of victims.
Leaving a trail of dead.

Why is this vaccine being rushed? How long do normal vaccines take to develop? Surely the word you want here is “prioritised”?

Vaccines usually take between ten and twenty years to develop. The fastest vaccine took four years to develop. So, yes, a vaccine made in six - eighteen months is rushed.

How can you study long term effects of you only study it for six months?

Vaccine technology has been around a long time which is why thankfully a new vaccine can be developed speedily in the face of a pandemic. We are very lucky that this is the case. I will be front of the queue with my sleeve rolled up because nothing else is going to get me out of this lockdown as I have had "the letter."

For people saying 'I'm not in the vulnerable group so probably won't have the vaccine'

There are many people who genuinely, due to medical conditons cannot have a vaccine. These people are reliant on everybody else to have it, therefore ensuring herd immunity.

Selfish.

Great, don’t have it. We will be there with bells on for ours as soon as they are available.

How can you study long term effects of you only study it for six months?

How can you study the long term effects of vulnerable people being severely constrained with no alternative?

• There are many people who genuinely, due to medical conditons cannot have a vaccine. These people are reliant on everybody else to have it, therefore ensuring herd immunity.

Selfish.*

Depends if you look at it that way or not. As I've said, if it's a live one, I can't have it, but I would certainly not call a person who can have it but chooses not to selfish and be reliant on them.

Would I not be selfish expecting them to have it to help protect me? I am not part of their responsibility, just like any other member of the public isn't mine.

Ulver, I meant herd immunity through vaccination not twatty "let the weakest die, saves us a fortune on health care".
Vaccination is the only way to get herd immunity. And if we don't have a vaccine, it's more lockdown.

@PhilCornwall1 , tbe current lockdown is for the benefit of the community. What's the difference?

I'm surprised anyone is confident either way at this point. We're so short of reliable data
This. There's not enough data, too much political pointscoring and profiteering eg everyone criticising the anti-malarial approach because Trump has shares yet anti-malarials were being tried and having some success months ago likewise anti-retrovirals. I'm not going to discredit or disparage a treatment approach because I don't like Trump.
The public faces of the vaccine push whether Trump or Gates are distracting noise imo. I'm much more interested in the research scientists and medical professionals' povs.
I'm concerned about mandatory vaccinations when there is still debate about how much the virus mutates.
And it's disappointing to see how quickly people throw themselves into 'camps' and criticise anyone with concerns as being an anti-vaxxer.
The logistics of a global vaccination programme for a mutating virus, may make all of this hypothetical anyway.

There's a difference between concern about whether a vaccine has been rigorously tested enough- presumably you need specialist knowledge to determine this and " I just don't feel it's right because I'm special ".
There's too much of the latter on here.

If any of you are podcast listeners one of my favourite at the moment is called 'This Podcast Will Kill You' if you scroll back through the old episodes there is an excellent 2 parter on vaccines. More recently they have been doing Coronavirus episodes. One of which is about vaccines. What have I learned? Vaccines are amazing, the history of vaccines and why a vaccine cannot be rushed. You have to follow the steps BUT some can be done in tandem.
The women that present this podcast are both scientists and one is now training as a doctor. They are also quite funny which helps when its a heavy topic. I would really recommend a listen if people want to get facts (with sources)

@bellinisurge Is it, that's not the way many see it.

@PhilCornwall1 , tell me how many see it then. If they don't see it as being for the benefit of the community.