Separated parents

[Cannybluff]

Hiya, ex wife and I have daughter arrangements weekends, holidays etc. So she won't let me see daughter (5yo)... she is really worried (has OCD) and I sympathise... but going without seeing her rips me apart... interested to know other family situations and views on this

*best

@JKScot4 because they're not just going between houses, the children aren't visitors! We're talking about the households, both households, that the children ARE members of. Not members of one and an occasional visitor at the other.

As you say, there is no right or wrong, just worried parents doing their best.
I hope you have lots of phone & face time. You could do things like start a drawing swap with her, do bed time stories by phone,

It is difficult .

I think that if you have another child who lives with you who works in a supermarket that I don't blame your ex for not wishing for her daughter to mix with your household.

That may seem harsh and you can view the stats how you please.

BUT.... If, God forbid, you push for contact and your child becomes one of those unlucky children, just like that other 5 year old succumbed, what guilt would you forever carry? Would that visit have been worth it?

Maybe the compromise, if practical and you're local, maybe when you go out for your exercise speak to your daughter through the window 2m apart? Not the same, but better than nothing.

My ex and I are still continuing with contact as normal. We have an existing court order in place. Unless one household is self-isolating due to somebody having symptoms, we will continue to abide by the court order.

But then we’re also in the middle of another court case (last hearing was in Feb, next due in May) about those arrangements, and any non-compliance with the court order without having very good reason, or any attempt to manipulate the current COVID-19 situation, would be looked upon very badly.

I’ll add that the logic behind the government allowing children to travel between their 2 households is to maintain some sense of normality for the children. At a time where their schools are closed, their activities cancelled, and they can’t visit other family or friends, maintaining contact is at least some degree of normality for them - the same as children who live full-time in just one household have.

In addition, if you don’t have a court order now, you’re very unlikely to get one any time soon. I guess maybe unless you both find solicitors taking on new clients, come to an agreement between yourselves, and get the courts to approve it. But that’s likely still take months, and if it’s that easy you wouldn’t need a court order.
Even in normal circumstances the entire process is many, many months. We’re now a year into our current case. I’ve still not had confirmation that our next hearing will go ahead next month (remotely or otherwise), and there are valid safeguarding concerns substantiated by the police and school.

Agreed. A few weeks' ago I had to apply for an emergency Court Hearing as my ex took it upon himself that "Due to the coronavirus, the children will not be coming to you for the forseeable future".

Initially he cited reasons of wanting to protect me as I'm heavily pregnant with my fiancé's baby, and my mother as she had cancer 18 months ago. What a load of rubbish - he hates me!!

Then when he realised how weak his case was as we've had a 50/50 Court Order in place for six years, he stated absolutely ridiculous claims of abuse and neglect. It made me so furious. He's a complete narcissist.

My solicitor applied to the courts on the Monday, my barrister represented me the Friday of the same week. It was all done via Zoom.

Ex got a dressing down by the judge (not the first time he's taken me to court and won't be the last) and children were returned to me with immediate effect, plus I was given the power for Order to be enforced by police if required.

@Cannybluff as your Ex as OCD just how terrified do you think she is? I mean genuinely is she going to be petrified?

Presumably your ex isn't being malicious.

I would wait and see where we are in another 3/4 weeks time and if this is going to go on for months then that is the time to decide whether to take it to court.

Your DD that works at the supermarket unfortunately is very likely to catch it and could by asymptomatic or could be unwell.

If you end up in court then at least you could then have more extended contact time such as every other week to make up for missed time. Have you come to some agreement for daily face time?

Really helpful these messages. Thank you all so much. It's a real variation. If I felt that she was in any increased danger then i wouldn't even be contemplating it. That the car journey there has a higher risk statistically says a lot to me about how this affects kids. I also cant understand the reasoning of not travelling between households as being an excuse. The guidance is that we should.

Say you're a mum and the dad had them at the time this started, would you be then saying its fine... don't send them back because of the risk? I could understand if there were some significant risk but I'm wfh and dont leave the house.

Just wish it would all go away...

Hi, yes I speak to her frequently on facetime. Although that's better than nothing.. its not the same as looking after them, playing and most importantly cuddles...

How old is your DD?

@Cannybluff I agree with everything you say. I'm a mum 50/50 - this court order was made when my kids were just 3 and 6 and against my wishes as ex is an abusive narcissist.

I got no maintenance from my wealthy ex as 50/50 so I had to privately rent a damp and mouldy two-bed for five years. Still renting now although a slightly bigger and better property. He remains in the five-bed exec family home with an unemployed gf 18 years his junior, 4 sports cars, 4 bathrooms and a hot tub.

I understand totally how hard it must be to be without your DD for long periods of time. It's over 6 years old since I had to lose my kids had of the time and it still hurts like mad, especially at times like Christmas and birthdays.

Unless you experience it first hand, I don't think people really get the emotional pain of it all.

Your ex is being sensible. Please put your child first.
Yes it is hard but you can video call and go up and chat in person through a window even.
Under the current guidance from the Family Court then as long as she encourages other types of contact then your ex can show she has a valid reason and you wouldnt get anywhere legally..

Healthy children have died. Do the right thing.

There's no reason not to see her, I'm sorry your ex is stopping you.

If mine tried to I'd take him to court.

Hi Rainbow... hope you dont mind but into the minus out... i think it's time

I'm so sorry to hear your story. It must have been really tough, I can feel your pain totally through your words.

Hard as it feels for me... and it is really tough, I thank my lucky stars that I haven't had to experience what you have. I genuinely hope you find your peace.x

You have stated that you are safely WFH but another member of your household works in a supermarket. That means that a member of your household is at high risk of bringing it to your household and your 5 year old catching it.

I had shared care with my eldest and I really don't get the angst my DDs need came first even when that meant her choosing her Dad to be her main residence for a few years. Relationships are what you make them.

Good god the double standards here?!?!

A woman came on here saying she was worried about taking her child to their dads... she got ripped apart (including by me) for withholding contact.

A man comes on saying he misses his daughter and his ex won't let him see her... everyone's now saying oh it's no wonder and it's understandable etc.

What the fuck?!

@willyoujustbequiet

I'm not sure if you know the number of otherwise healthy children under 10 who have died from this? I do by the way... for detailed stats go to onsare .gov.uk its updated regularly.

Whilst not wishing to downplay the terrible nature of this virus, there is clear patterns that the over 60s are at risk and very little to suggest that children are particularly affected.

It's really easy for someone who is with their children telling their ex to wait it out... not see them.. because they have no emotional attachment to that person. In some cases they have a really negative emotional attachment to their ex.

If I see statistically that my daughter is more likely to die in a fire at her own home than of this virus than to see her dad then there is reason why the frustration would be significantly justified. If my ex were vulnerable or anyone living with her were too then I would also add that into the mix.

@Cannybluff Yes, you're totally right. Healthy kids are more likely to die in a car accident than they are of CV. And yet parents all across the UK still put their kids in the car and drive them places. We're aware of the risks of car accidents, but we look at the whole situation and take a measured view, and the same should be happening here.

FaceTiming is not a sufficient replacement for face to face contact. For cuddles and kisses and playing and showing the child how wanted and loved they are. My kids are all under 5 and will not sit at the laptop and FaceTime relatives, there I no way I would tell their dad that's the only contact he's allowed with them indefinitely, because it's not in the kids best interests.

Too many people are using the (statistically tiny) risk of CV for withholding contact, but these same people let their children travel by car. It's ridiculous. I hope you get your situation sorted.

@Willyoujustbequiet very narrow minded vision. The child is emotionally affected by not seeing a clearly loving dad, locked in the house in fear of a risk that may never happen. Yet a risk that is already manifesting itself and affecting the child's emotional stability is not important apparently !!!!!

mothers like her need to bring the child first. The child has the right to see both parents FULLSTOP

Hannah thats utter bullshit. Any child would much rather be alive and be temporarily separated from the other parent. Christ its a few months. People need to suck it up and stop being so damn selfish.

Thats aside from the presumption that the NRP is loving and not a deadbeat control freak as it often the case.

My own particular deadbeat hadnt seen our children in 8 months. Now all of a sudden he wants to despite being in a high risk job and not social distancing outside of that either. Its about control. A loving parent wont take unnecessary risks. Its about priorities.

I'm sorry your kids dad hasn't stepped up. Some dads are pretty rubbish. Some mums are too... you obviously care greatly about your children and your protective maternal nature may have heightened your feelings on this.

I would risk things for my kids... not to put them at harm but to show them that sometimes to do the right thing that you need to challenge. I can totally understand and empathise with my ex. It is awful for her living with high levels of anxiety.

But there is guidance here and I research properly the stats to form an opinion about risks. Her little feet when they come running in to see me at 6.30am with her favourite teddy and a board game is just the best thing in the world... and going without is a massive sacrifice I would happily take if she was going to be in danger...

@Willyoujustbequiet waw, your ignorance is beyond belief, you must've failed school.
Any child would much rather be alive and be temporarily separated from the other parent.
Give me one statistics that says children are at risk of death from covid... anything, how many healthy children have died around the world? what is the percentage of that?

God I can't with this ignorance

My ex is the RP for our children. Not through my choice. I can guarantee you that the children would do anything not to be separated from me. As it is, I have them screaming and crying and hiding when it’s time to take them back because they don’t want to be with him. They’ve been faking coughs saying that means they have to self-isolate with me, and recently my daughter just sat there and point blank refused to move. Last time they threatened to run away from his house. It’s even worse now they haven’t been to school for weeks.

The strain on their mental and physical health from being solely with their father is a far greater risk than their risk of serious complications from Covid-19.

Not every situation is the same fgs. It would be selfish of me not to insist we continue with them coming to me as per the court order.

When you think the schools were open for a long time after the first coronvirus case in the UK, it puts into prospective how unlikely children are of being really ill with this virus, there are so many other illnesses children are more at risk from.

Christ sake honestly some people going between 2 households doesnt Apply when a Child is going between THEIR 2 homes.

A child should be maintaining contact until there is a good reason not to.

FWIW I am a nurse & share my DD 50/50. I follow all precautions re uniform & handwashing & have agreed with exP if any of us show synptoms DD will self isolate with that person.

Routine is important to children & so is there relationship with their dad, regardless of what some mums obviously believe