Boris in hospital

[Cary2012]

Breaking news.

Prone position is recommended because the breathing action is mainly through the back, not the front, so lying on one's stomach, even for mild forms of CV, is a more effective way of taking in O2. It frees up the rib cage and increases the capability of the muscles around the ribs, as the virus compromises muscle movement (because everything aches).

They recommend deep breathing through the back, including if you are at home and trying to manage your symptoms within the first 7days.

Definitely don't spend long periods lying in your back is the advice I've heard.

@FATEdestiny agreed, prone does reduce risk of secondary infection, which becomes increasingly likely after that first 7 days, when the person's breathing has been compromised from several days of discomfort. It becomes a cumulative effect.

I've been doing deep yoga style breathing exercises even though I don't currently have Corona virus as it can be a game-changer if the body is able to fight back. No guarantees of course, but may as well preempt the bastard!

@AnyFucker I have had two bouts of pneumonia in the past, both required proning, proning doesn’t require sedation, ventilation etc, in most cases it requires zero oxygen support.

Love how people like @AnyFucker suddenly become medical experts at a time like this.

Grateful to hear people's actual experiences.

The information about lying prone is useful to know. Even if you go to bed with a normal sort of heavy cold, your breathing can be tight, so lying on your stomach might help then?

You seem to be assuming that @AnyFucker ISN’T a medic @professorbean.

Maybe she is a doctor and all the amateur medicine enthusiasts on the thread are making themselves look rather foolish my extrapolating from anecdata and specific incidents?

As I understand from her posts, Anyfucker works in a hospital. Midwife possibly? Idk

I get the impression she has some clue on this subject too.

Note that anyfucker was referring specifically to proning whilst in I.C.U.

SimonJT does not state whether they were in ICU.

Well I kind of hope she *isn't" medical with the nonsense she's just spread!!!

That 'proning' surprises me, I just had visions of lots of people flat on their backs - but my medical knowledge is largely gained from watching Greys Anatomy. It makes sense though when you think about it - you are much more likely to snore lying flat on your back, so its prob not best for the airways.

Being in 'good spirits' is relative isn't it. He might be in good spirits compared to some poor sod being ventilated in the bed next to him.

@Deux I was, I don’t have a fully functioning spleen so when I get ill I’m really very unwell.

Maybe she is a doctor

Who to trust - an poster on MN who may be a doctor or work in a hospital, or an A&E consultant who has treated COVID-19 patients and has described the stages of treatment?

Early proning is important even before ventilation - indeed for patients on nasal cannula oxygen it can reduce the need to progress to ventilation.

twitter.com/BBroderickMD/status/1244489341042384902?s=20

ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-020-2738-5

Sunak has just reported that Johnson is improving and now sitting up, so that's good news.

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson 'improving' as intensive care treatment continues
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52221724

Who to trust - an poster on MN who may be a doctor or work in a hospital, or an A&E consultant who has treated COVID-19 patients and has described the stages of treatment?

I’m more likely to look up something someone suggests is worth looking up, especially if they are calm and no-nonsense and sound like they might have a clue. (I’m always very aware that MN is positively heaving with knowledgable professional women and there are pointers to be had.)

I’m less likely to read an MN anecdote of the “when I had double pneumonia and an ingrowing toenail” variety and blithely extrapolate from that an assumption about what standard current medical procedure is. Not without checking.

It is the Chancellor who said Boris is improving, not a medic.
If he really is sitting up in bed and engaging with a conversation then surely he will very soon be out of ICU?

Not necessarily. They make you sit up as soon as you are able in ICU. A few days post transplant, I was moved into a chair next to the bed for a bit. I had two lines in my neck, a feeding tube, two surgical drains, catheter etc. I was still on the ICU for a few more days. I was completely off my tits and hallucinating but I definitely was moved to the chair.

If he really is sitting up in bed and engaging with a conversation then surely he will very soon be out of ICU?

I think it said “engaging positively” on the BBC article and the Guardian update, (so I take it they’ve lifted that straight from Rishi’s press conference) which sounds more like hand signals than conversation.

As if he'd be engaging 'negatively'!!!

'engaging positively' could mean a range of things from, 'has not yet turned his face to the wall' to 'is playing scrabble with the nurses'

As if he'd be engaging 'negatively'!!!

I think they mean more in the sense of he is reacting appropriately to questions from HCPs, rather than randomly waving his arms about/grunting in response to nothing in particular.

It’s not a comment on how polite he is being

Yeah, it said "engaging". Nothing about conversations.

Good point. So he could just be looking at them as they talk to them then and seeming to taking it in.
Still if he is sitting up and that is true, then hopefully he won't die.