we have now had more deaths from covid 19 than China!

[EricaNernie]

That is so shocking and awful.
remembering how impressed and worried we were about china building new hospitals almost overnight, and the lockdown
and now it is here.

mango
Yes, I know how China works and it would have been important for provinces to show they had it all under control.
However, when I look at my city they do appear to have it all control. I am not basing this on any figures, but from info from friends eg a local restaurant had a flower arranging class today...

@mochajoes
25 were classed as imported

The border has been closed now for nine days so there are no more foreign tourists and those that arrived beforehand are in compulsory quarantine.

Yes @ShanghaiDiva think that that should be a noticeable statistical difference between China and Europe/US because of how much more testing was done and how much more brutual the lockdown was. I would expect the figures to reflect that.

I just dont think the figures should reflect it as much as they do at the moment

It may be a case of regional govts. not daring to send any bad news to Beijing because there is a tendancy to shoot the messenger, sometimes literally.

This is a country that has banned Winne the Pooh because some people made a joke about Xi Jing Ping looking like his long-lost brother.

(Just got this site banned in the PRC.)

Exactly Quartz.
My point is not to defend China and say they are not lying, but to emphasise that tough action affects results. They also tested, tested and tested. My dh gets twice daily temp checks and has been tested for the virus twice.

My point is not to defend China and say they are not lying, but

@ShanghaiDiva

But that is precisely what you seem to have been doing in every thread in which I have seen your posts. There are two separate issues here and both are inextricably linked to the nature of a totalitarian regime. The first, point A, is the immediate propensity to underplay and misrepresent the seriousness of an event. You have repeatedly defended the official statistics. You have challenged anyone who has linked to credible sources which cast serious doubt on those statistics. Fine. But don't be surprised if others are sceptical about their credibility, given point A.

The second issue is the inevitable difference between the measures an authoritarian state can impose and the problems liberal democracies have in imposing comparable measures. There is absolutely no doubt at all that if a state can effectively shut down its citizens, prevent and monitor movement via temperature checking etc, it has a better chance of containing and minimizing the spread of the virus. Western countries have made mistakes in their response
to this. But that does not mean the country from whence this global pandemic emerged should not be subject to critical scrutiny. You have robustly defended China's actions. It is unsurprising that some readers draw their own conclusions about your objectivity.

and there was "no evidence" of the virus spreading between humans

Which was the case, at that time.

Look at the graphs here ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#confirmed-covid-19-deaths-by-country

Specifically the ones comparing rates per country in the section "Are deaths increasing at different rates in different countries?"

Note that China initially had the fastest rate of doubling, to be expected from the source country - the majority of countries follow the same curve as China. At which point is it suggested China started fiddling the figures? These curved are relative to the first 5 deaths - so to " fiddle" their curve to match other countries, they would have to accurately predict what would happen in all other countries.

Suggesting China are fiddling their figures simply does not stand up to analysis - so the question is who is spreading the false rumours and why?

Read the Washington Post article I linked to earlier.

Using photos posted online, social media sleuths have estimated that Wuhan funeral homes have returned 3,500 urns a day since March 23. That would imply a death toll in Wuhan of about 42,000 — or 16 times the official number. Another widely shared calculation from Radio Free Asia, based on Wuhan’s 84 furnaces running nonstop and each cremation taking an hour, put the death toll at 46,800. Wuhan residents say the activities belie the official statistics. “It can’t be right . . . because the incinerators have been working round the clock, so how can so few people have died?” a man identified only by his surname, Zhang, told RFA

Well I guess the concern is then that even younger kids may then be more at risk than suggested.

Also supposedly A blood group is more susceptible and looking there were more here and Italy than china.
Chinese are I think generally shorter too. Also if more men smoke there there could be fewer older men about to be affected.

Look at the spikes in deaths compared to March last year in various areas and countries in this economist article (you can register to read for free). We won't know the truth anywhere for ages www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/03/covid-19s-death-toll-appears-higher-than-official-figures-suggest

My point is not to defend China and say they are not lying, but to emphasise that tough action affects results

Like sealing people inside their homes do you mean? Yeah, not sure the UK government would get away with doing that.

@FrankieStein402

Accept all of those graphs have it starting from January 21 whereas the first signs of it were in December - China could easily have used the first days of accurate data from December time before starting to fudge the data

Thats not to say they neccessarily did just that it could fairly easily be done

Bovary
My intention is not to defend the statistics, but to give some insight, based on living in China, why there are differences eg posters mentioned people dying at home may not be counted. I pointed out that China approached cases in a very different way: it was mandatory to go to hospital and therefore unlikely that there were huge numbers of cases missed due to people dying at home.
China took extreme measures. I understand that these cannot all be replicated in other countries. Western countries made mistakes. Of course, China’s Methods can and should be scrutinised. I have lived in China for 12 years and am well aware of how the regime operates.
Objectivity? Can any of us really be objective? We each bring our own experiences and prejudices to any debate. Clearly, I have seen the benefits of tough action as it benefitted me , my family and friends.
I am indebted to people in my district who delivered vegetables and water, who kept shops open and it is upsetting to read comments that describe the Chinese as disgusting.
You are, of course, free to disregard my comments and dismiss me as as some kind of puppet of the Chinese state.

China chat shite. Wouldn’t believe a single thing they say. I refuse to believe that the U.K. has more deaths than the place it originated.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
I don’t think any govt should be doing that.

@FrankieStein402
Ds and I were just talking about that: they would have to have known in advance how other countries would be affected and what actions they would/would not take to control the spread.

I don’t think any govt should be doing that.

Yet you're promoting the fact that China took strict measures - one of the measures was to seal residents inside their homes was it not?

This has led to xenophobia around the world and a slippery slope

That’s quite the accusation. Where’s the proof?

So those charts have the 1st death on January 14th. Yet the whistleblower started noticing it in December.

Those two dont add up so its easy to see that they could have released correct data later before starting to fudge it.

There is a reason for the saying lies damn lies and statistics they are very easy to make up

Not on country believes China.

But when the dust settles Chins will be worldwide public enemy number 1.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Coronavirus-Compensation.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjb4eH_5dHoAhWyThUIHUcxAPIQFjACegQIBxAK&usg=AOvVaw2O-Bg6dJsyNulKgCFJAyeK&cshid=1586107278435" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Coronavirus-Compensation.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjb4eH_5dHoAhWyThUIHUcxAPIQFjACegQIBxAK&usg=AOvVaw2O-Bg6dJsyNulKgCFJAyeK&cshid=1586107278435

henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/coronaviruscompensation/