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Covid

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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 3

992 replies

Barracker · 03/04/2020 18:10

Welcome to thread 3 of the daily updates.

Resource links:
Worldometer UK page
Financial Times Daily updates and graphs
HSJ Coronavirus updates
Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre
NHS England stats, including breakdown by Hospital Trust
Covidly.com to filter graphs using selected data filters
ONS statistics for CV related deaths outside hospitals, released weekly each Tuesday

Thank you to all contributors for their factual, data driven, and civil discussions. Flowers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
loobyloo1234 · 06/04/2020 15:01

I think most Monday's will see this dip based on last week. It will be admin over the weekend and so on which means tomorrow will see a big surge presumably. Some media outlets jumped the gun last Monday I seem to recall with a 'could this be the peak' etc. Not a chance in my opinion

Sexnotgender · 06/04/2020 15:02

Where are these figures from as nothing from official source yet.

namechangemania · 06/04/2020 15:09

@Sexnotgender Sky news and the sun online. They always seem to know the figures before the official website is updated Hmm

Sexnotgender · 06/04/2020 15:11

Thanks, I’m always a bit wary of figures until they’re officially released.

The Scottish figures also aren’t a true reflection of the current situation. Past 2 days they’ve reported 2 deaths each day but they’re moving to a new system so it’s not accurate😏

Karwomannghia · 06/04/2020 15:32

Is there something that shows hospital admissions? Would that be more indicative of an increase (or not). Judging by Boris Johnson if most people got it around the same time as him then the peak would be in about a week I guess. But either way lower numbers can only be a good thing at any stage.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 16:05

"Given that no one has immunity, i think the more plausible explanation is that they isolated to their cabins before everyone was infected."

We simply don't know

Some people do not catch certain viruses
Even within families quarantined togather for months in Wuhan, some family members never caught it

People are infectious for several days before showing symptoms
So the people on that cruise ship had a long time of exposure before there was any quarantine

Coquohvan · 06/04/2020 16:05

@Barracker thank you for these threads. Just came across them. Very informative and factual.
Regarding NHS England link above, would you know if there is a NHS Scotland Hospital Breakdown.
The Scottish one I have found give the numbers from the 14 Health Boards, would be interested in seeing each Off the Scottish Hospitals breakdowns.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 16:10

I'm strongly suspect the Chinese regime faked / massaged their figures,
but even multiplying by a factor of 10 they are below Western govt predictions of infection rates and hence population deaths

So maybe it is a matter of measures taken there being far stricter than the West
We just won't know, until we see the final figures for the main European countries and the US

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 16:14

German figures also tend to be lower from the weekend, then rise later in the week

Frontline staff work 24/7, but the data collators probably don't

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 16:35

UK peak in 2 weeks still seems more likely looking at the curves
Analysts stated Italy had passed the peak after there was a 1 week trend, which is about what we need for any country's figures

EmMac7 · 06/04/2020 16:35

According to the dashboard there have been +3802 new cases today, and +439 deaths.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 06/04/2020 16:36

Today’s numbers

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 3
ChicChicChicChiclana · 06/04/2020 17:28

Along with everything else we need urgently, we need a good antibody test urgently!

I have been watching You Tube videos today with very persuasive arguments about huge doses of vitamin C and ordinary doses of vitamin D as worth trying as giving some protection against respiratory illness.

The vitamin D argument is especially persuasive but then I do wonder why countries with so much sunlight and a generally more outdoor lifestyle (Spain and Italy) have been so very seriously affected.

How is the rest of Europe doing? Eastern Europe?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 17:39

Eastern European countries have generally far fewer cases.
I read that they v early on dusted off their old Warsaw Pact contingency plans for dealing with biological warfare
and hence took effective action earlier than other countries, which is where it most counts

e.g. An EU Commission figure early on in the crisis expressed fear for Bulgaria, due to their having the worst health system in the EU,
however Bulgaria's actions avoided to date much load - only 550 cases now in total - on that health system

EE countries probably also had much less direct contact with China, so mostly just at risk from 2ndary contacts

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 17:42

Ending COVID via Vaccination

https://www.city-journal.org/coronavirus-vaccine
The biopharmaceutical industry will be able to make a Covid-19 vaccine

  • probably a few of them - using various existing vaccine technologies.

But many people worry that Covid-19 will mutate and evade our vaccines, as the flu virus does each season.

Covid-19 is fundamentally different from flu viruses, though, in ways that will allow our first-generation vaccines to hold up well.

To the extent that Covid does mutate, it’s likely to do so much more slowly than the flu virus does,
buying us time to create new and improved vaccines.

Every virus has a genome composed of genetic material (either RNA or DNA) that encodes instructions for replicating the virus.

When a virus infects a cell, it accesses machinery for making copies of its genomic instructions
and follows those instructions to make viral proteins that assemble, with copies of the instructions, to form more viruses
(which then pop out of the cell to infect new cells, either in the same host or in someone new).

There is a critical difference between coronaviruses and flu.

The novel coronavirus genome is made of one long strand of genetic code.
This makes it an “unsegmented” virus—like a set of instructions that fit on a single page.

The flu virus has eight genomic segments, so its code fits on eight “pages.”
That’s not common for viruses, and it gives the flu a special ability.
Because the major parts of the flu virus are described on separate pages (segments) of its genome, when two different flu viruses infect the same cell, they can swap pages.

Imagine two people with eight-page reports fighting over a copy machine.
In the tussle, some copies might turn out to have a mix of pages from two different reports.
This page-swapping process, where viruses exchange parts of their genome, is called reassortment.

The flu can change rapidly when multiple strains pass through the same host.
But coronavirus, as a one-page report, tends to stay together,
and while coronaviruses can swap sections

  • in a process known as recombination - it is difficult to achieve and thus rare. (Imagine two pages ripping in the same way and swapping pieces that get glued together again.)

Coronavirus does mutate.
.....
A vaccine is like a description of a wanted criminal:
it tells your immune cells whom to look out for.

So long as the suspect’s appearance doesn’t change too much, then the vaccine works.
....
But once we’ve developed a vaccine for this strain

  • and once we’ve all taken it - we’ll have herd immunity to it.

That immunity may fade as our immune system forgets the picture that the vaccine showed it,
but we can solve that by getting booster shots of the same Covid-19 vaccine periodically.

What we don’t have to worry about is the virus rapidly mutating away from our vaccines as fast as flu can,
because owing to its simplicity, it can’t pull off the flu’s face-swapping tricks.

NotDavidTennant · 06/04/2020 17:50

The number of new cases per day in Italy has dropped below 4,000 for the first time since March the 17th. Hopefully a positive sign.

Frezia · 06/04/2020 18:01

@ChicChicChicChiclana
Eastern and Southeastern Europe is doing rather well in terms of stats. What I think helped in a lot of these countries is more widespread commuting by car as opposed to public transport, also people tend to have jobs more local to where they live so there aren't huge commute lines between towns and regions. Which is all helpful in containing the spread. I have family in Croatia, the authorities took decisive measures quite early. The lockdown is more or less on level with ours, but testing seems more widespread and records are kept of those in self-isolation too. They've recorded 16 deaths in total so far and the infection rate has become linear rather than exponential. It may be only my personal impression, and of course there are always idiots breaking the rules, but on the whole it seems that most people are taking it rather stoically. Schools switched to online and TV classes which seems to work reasonably well. Shops are apparently well stocked and online deliveries work OK.

ChicChicChicChiclana · 06/04/2020 18:11

Wow, that's amazing about Croatia. Literally just across a narrow sea from Italy too. There seems to be much to admire there.

Frezia · 06/04/2020 18:12

@BigChocFrenzy
Interesting analysis. Croatia is right next door to Italy and shares a lot of trade and tourism with Italy, so the risk was quite high and the authorities were aware of it. I think what helped there is the relatively recent experience of war which is in a lot of ways comparable to this crisis. The authorities are not reluctant to take decisive measures and there seems to be a general spirit of "OK we can do this" among the people. If I'm honest, I'd feel safer there in this crisis than here in London.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 18:16

@Frezia I think that where a government has had a clear strategy from early on, which follows expert advice
and when they also keep the people informed,
then they retain high public support even for tough measures

larrygrylls · 06/04/2020 18:33

Importantly and encouragingly, the global trend in new cases seems to have turned the corner:

Today: around 65k (assuming the US ends with 30K)
Yesterday: 72k
Day before yesterday: 84k
3rd April: 102k
2nd April: 80k
1st April: 77k
31st March: 74k
30th March :61k

This is why global stock markets are up around 5%.

itsgettingweird · 06/04/2020 18:38

I had a telephone consult with ds neurologist today. Ds has a neuromuscular disorder (hereditary spastic paraparasis for anyone that's heard of it).
He asked how we'd been as ds is low to moderate risk but is also blood group A which we know could possibly be an indicator the illness won't be as mild.
He said he'd had it and tested positive. We do know from news outlets it was one of the first hospitals to report a death.
I explained I'd been unwell and my symptoms and he said it sounds like I've had it and the fact ds coughed a day after he has too (although ds only coughed for an hour every evening for 5 days!). He said there is a MASSIVE differential in severity of mild symptoms but more a very distinct set of symptoms that differentiate it. Mine wa s the fact although I wasn't really struggling for breath I did get breathless very easily but I spent 3 days where all I could think about was breathing in and out. It was like my brain couldn't focus on anything else despite me trying to sleep or watch tv. He obviously cannot say for sure and so we have to be careful but having watched Matt Hancock say he was really bad for 3 days and then turned a corner that's exactly how I was. Plus I also lost half a stone in 5 days!

A friend also said they've now identified 8 different stains and I wonder if this is what is causing the difference. What she didn't know is if you catch 1 you are immune to them all as she didn't know if they were 8 variants if the same strain iyswim?

So this may be why we see such a variation on cruise ships. There is obviously many cases where people really do not show symptoms or are so mild they don't assume it's covid 19.
I think it's probably likely the 40% figure is the closest but suspect the 20-30% is probably more realistic.

After the daily update the lady who did the summary did point out that last weeks results were lower on the Monday and so optimism is good but we need to have a few more days of reporting to see a real pattern. All these extra beds and hospitals being guilt shows me personally that they are still expecting it to get worse the next few weeks and possibly aren't even expecting the peak next week as many of them won't be finished until then.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 18:45

Some of the questions each country will have to consider for their individual case:

  • how long after peak has passed can the lockdown be lifted ?
  • When can restrictions on entertainment be grafually lifted ?
  • When will they be re-imposed - assuming no new flareup - October ?
  • What about Christmas ?
  • What is the schedule for 2021, until the vaccine arrives (hopefully before winter)

And of course a massive program of testing

Blair foundation has an article on the content, scale of testing, the resources & org required:

institute.global/tony-blair/covid-19-testing-uk-unpicking-lockdown

Gutterton · 06/04/2020 18:48

Thanks for all of the contributions on here. I have been trying to keep up.

I just wanted to know if there is an official estimate of how many deaths will be in the community? Just seen piece on SKY news where the Police quoted 30% of deaths would be (are?) community based - as they would be managing collection of bodies to temporary morgues.

Anyone know if this is accurate and if these figures are added to official figures? Are these added by ONS on Tuesdays? And if so has the 30% been reflected?

itsgettingweird · 06/04/2020 18:52

I will also add his consultant has put him down to be seen in clinic in 6 months at the city hospital so the neuro physios can see him too so I took that as a good sign they see us coming out of this and moving on in the next few months.