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Worried About Coronavirus- thread 36

962 replies

TheStarryNight · 03/04/2020 17:17

New thread

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37
buttermilkwaffles · 08/04/2020 12:42

Detailed and interesting Reuters article on the UK response: mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21P1VF?

CrunchyCarrot · 08/04/2020 12:48

Well said, Red

Stockpiling for emergencies should be common sense and encouraged for all who are able to afford to do so, in times of 'plenty'. And adequate provision and plans made for the sections of the population who cannot do so. Plus help on how to use various provisions and rotate stock so that none goes to waste.

Stockpilers aren't selfish; they are the wise squirrels who have prepared for a rainy day.

Saucery · 08/04/2020 12:59

I thanked my lucky stars I had most of my Brexit stash left tbh. I loathe supermarket shopping and didn’t want to fight people for bathroom cleaner or beans. I’m going to keep it up after all this.
Plus, I’ve found out what alternatives there are around here and some shops have really impressed me with their efforts to get deliveries to people who need them.

TwentyViginti · 08/04/2020 13:04

No need for frothing WITH CAPS RedToothBrush, some stockpiled sensibly, many out of panic, some out of sheer greed.

Random18 · 08/04/2020 13:05

The one thing I am struggling with is Handwash.

My kids use loads. We have started watering it down Hmm

I have some full strength left that I am using when i come back from outside.

I can see me using shower gel soon.

TwentyViginti · 08/04/2020 13:08

There's a thread about watered down handwash, I'm sure it's fine to use, as is shower gel, shampoo etc; watered down might be kinder to frequently washed hands, too.

Random18 · 08/04/2020 13:13

Thanks Tweny trying to use it watered down when in house and then full strength if we have been outside or touched something outside.

I do have lots of shower gel as we do normally bulk buy anyway (it has meant we have not bought a lot of things since panic began)

EmMac7 · 08/04/2020 13:31

@buttermilkwaffles

Thank you for that link. Chris Whitty does not come out of that looking good.

MigginsMs · 08/04/2020 13:44

(please please lockdown December) it looks like a recipe for disaster to me.

It’s all a worry in terms of timing, but don’t you think the economy is likely to be fucked enough without shutting down the month many businesses make most of their money for the year? I really hope they do what they can for December to be normal.

Quartz2208 · 08/04/2020 13:44

My DH is a natural stockpiler send him out to buy something and he always buys in bulk. I let him loose in the Supermarket at the end of February. Thing is I think people didnt stockpile they panic bought. Stockpiling is getting dried and canned goods things that have as Red says a best before date not a use by date. Unless you have a lot of freezer space (and we have always had two) you cant stockpile them

Soap he collects bars from hotels when we visit so have lots of hand soap

MigginsMs · 08/04/2020 13:46

My kids use loads.

Why do they use so much? If they’re in the house and washing hands when they come in and everything in the house is clean as I am sure it is do they need to wash hands that much more than normal eg after the loo and eating?

EmMac7 · 08/04/2020 13:48

Sweden’s cases are way up today, and their deaths are much higher than their neighbours.

That experiment is failing.

NettleTea · 08/04/2020 13:48

I cant see schools going back early. My sons school which was definately ahead of the curve back after half term (refused admission to anyone who had even LOOKED at Italy plus others until they had self isolated in the UK for 14 days, and refused to allow some overseas boarders home for half term) is saying that they may be back in June/July. They have extended the school holiday for Easter by a week and extended the summer term by a week in July ,
They are planning on resuming online teaching after Easter.

MigginsMs · 08/04/2020 13:55

Surely opening schools is the best way of encouraging it to spread quickly again? It’s hard to think of another way that would make the virus spread more quickly between households :/

theskyispurple · 08/04/2020 14:11

Does anyone know what the criteria are for being admitted to nightingale? I was under the impression that we had enough critical care beds still available?

thesedaysarescary · 08/04/2020 14:21

Why are they now announcing England only deaths instead of the U.K. total? I'm getting lost as to the true figures.

thesedaysarescary · 08/04/2020 14:26

England's total was 828 deaths today, wales had 33, Scotland 70 NI 5 so 936 for the U.K.?

YangShanPo · 08/04/2020 14:30

A very bad number but seems to be following the pattern.

EducatingArti · 08/04/2020 14:47

@theskyispurple
I think not all hospitals have spare capacity now in London so some patients would need to be transferred somewhere so it might as well be the Nightingale rather than another hospital.
It will leave other hospitals slightly less stretched at a point when numbers are only going to increase!

CrunchyCarrot · 08/04/2020 14:59

So I managed to find some of Italy's more recent death figures, have made the chart bigger. If the UK had an additional 936 deaths today then that makes a total of 7,095 deaths.

Worried About Coronavirus- thread 36
TheStarryNight · 08/04/2020 15:01

From the Guardian
EU's most senior scientist resigns over bloc's handling of Covid-19 crisis

Mauro Ferrari condemns EU’s ‘deeply disappointing and disturbing’ reaction to pandemic

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12.47 BST

The EU’s most senior scientist has resigned with a passionate denunciation of the bloc’s reaction to the coronavirus pandemic, claiming he has been blocked from funding treatments and vaccines.

Mauro Ferrari, the president of the European Research Council, said he had been “deeply disappointed and disturbed” by the EU’s efforts in reaction to what he described as “a tragedy of possibly unprecedented proportions”.

“In time of emergencies people, and institutions, revert to their deepest nature and reveal their true character,” Ferrari wrote in a damning statement announcing his resignation.

Ferrari, a leading research scientist, who told the Guardian in January that his passion for funding breakthrough-science had been fuelled by the death of his first wife from cancer, had served three months of his four-year term before handing in his letter of resignation to the European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, on Tuesday.

Ferrari, an Italian, said in his statement that he had joined the ERC believing he could help the funding agency serve “the needs of the world”. He added, however, that his “idealistic motivations were crushed by a very different reality”.

A proposal he had made in early March in Brussels to establish a special programme directed at combating Covid-19 was “unanimously rejected” by the ERC’s governing body, he claimed.

Later attempts to fund the best scientists following discussions with Von der Leyen herself had also “disintegrated upon impact” with the layers of European commission bureaucracy, Ferrari said.

“I believed this [programme] justified by the expected burden of death, suffering, societal transformation, and economic devastation, especially striking the less fortunate, the weakest in the societies of the world,” Ferrari wrote. “I thought that at a time like this, the very best scientists in the world should be provided with resources and opportunities to fight the pandemic, with new drugs, new vaccines, new diagnostic tools, new behavioural dynamic approaches based on science, to replace the oft-improvised intuitions of political leaders.”

Ferrari’s said his initial proposal had been rejected on the grounds that the ERC’s role was to fund from the “bottom up” rather than dictate the areas where scientists should focus.

“I argued that this was not the time for scientific governance to worry excessively about the subtleties of the distinctions between bottom-up versus top-down research, or whether all scientific sectors would benefit similarly from a broad initiative on Covid-19,” Ferrari wrote. “So, I was clearly disappointed, and deeply disturbed, by the unanimous rejection.”

Ferrari said he had been motivated by the belief “the very best should pick up their best weapons, and go to the frontier, to the frontlines, to defeat this formidable enemy”.

The ERC is the EU’s chief funder of scientists seeking breakthroughs at the very frontiers of our knowledge.

Since its establishment in 2007, it has helped seven researchers win Nobel prizes. Three of its grant recipients were responsible for the first image of a black hole, which made headlines around the world last year.

Ferrari said Von der Leyen had later “personally reached out asking for my input on how the pandemic might be addressed”. But his contact with the commission president had “created an internal political thunderstorm” and his plans came to nothing, he added.

Ferrari wrote that more broadly the EU had failed to live up to its ideals in dealing with coronavirus, with member states failing to offer aid to the countries most impacted, including Italy, when it was needed most.

In the latest development finance ministers failed on Tuesday evening to come to agreement on how they would fund the rebuilding of the European economy, with the richer northern states resisting plans for new instruments that would make borrowing on the financial markets cheaper for the south and more expensive for them.

Ferrari writes: “I have been extremely disappointed by the European response to Covid-19, for what pertains to the complete absence of coordination of health care policies among member states, the recurrent opposition to cohesive financial support initiatives, the pervasive one-sided border closures, and the marginal scale of synergistic scientific initiatives.

“I have lost faith in the system itself. And now the times require decisive, focused, and committed actions – a call to responsibility for all those that have an aspiration to make a difference against this devastating tragedy.”

OP posts:
Cheesecake53 · 08/04/2020 15:10

This is the statement of the research council, which says on 27 March Ferrari was asked to resign: erc.europa.eu/news/resignation-mauro-ferrari-%E2%80%93-statement-scientific-council

Cheesecake53 · 08/04/2020 15:12

Here is the text:

08-04-2020

The ERC's Scientific Council notes with regret the statement made by Mauro Ferrari concerning his resignation on 7 April. We here present the facts of the situation.

On Friday 27 March, all 19 active members of the ERC’s Scientific Council individually and unanimously requested that Mauro Ferrari resign from his position as ERC’s President.

This request was made for four reasons:

During his three-month term in office, Professor Ferrari displayed a complete lack of appreciation for the raison-d’être of the ERC to support excellent frontier science, designed and implemented by the best researchers in Europe. Although voicing his support for this in public pronouncements, the proposals he made to the Scientific Council did not reflect this position. He did not understand the context of the ERC within the EU’s Research and Innovation Programme Horizon 2020.
Since his appointment, Professor Ferrari displayed a lack of engagement with the ERC, failing to participate in many important meetings, spending extensive time in the USA and failing to defend the ERC’s programme and mission when representing the ERC.
In contrast, Professor Ferrari made several personal initiatives within the Commission, without consulting or tapping into the collective knowledge of the Scientific Council, and instead using his position to promote his own ideas.
Lastly, Professor Ferrari was involved in multiple external enterprises, some academic and some commercial, which took a lot of his time and effort and appeared on several occasions to take precedence over his commitment to ERC. The workload associated with these activities proved to be incompatible with the mandate of President of the Scientific Council.

Professor Ferrari subsequently resigned on 7 April 2020. Therefore, his resignation in fact followed a written unanimous vote of no confidence. In contrast, Professor Ferrari has stated that the reason for his resignation is that the Scientific Council did not support his call for the ERC to fund a special initiative focused on the COVID-19 virus. To address this point specifically, we did not support a special initiative because that is not our remit and the Commission's Research and Innovation Directorate General, with which we are connected, was already very active in developing new programmes to support this research through the appropriate channels.

Indeed, many ERC funded researchers have been active for some time in researching the coronavirus family and many other equally dangerous pathogens. Over 50 ongoing or completed ERC projects supported for a total value of about EUR 100 million are contributing to the response to the COVID-19 pandemic by providing insights from several different scientific fields such as: virology, epidemiology, immunology, paths for new diagnostics and treatments, public health, medical devices, artificial intelligence, social behaviour, crisis management.

In addition, as stated on its website in reaction to the COVID-19 crisis, the ERC offers ‘grantees the flexibility to adjust their research project”. This is an efficient measure because several ERC grantees already enquired about the possibility of addressing COVID-19 related research in their ongoing ERC project. All this information is publicly available on the ERC website, which also includes testimonies from funded ERC grantees on how bottom-up frontier research is critical to deliver new – and sometimes unexpected – insights relevant for better understanding and fighting the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as for providing social behaviour and crisis management related solutions.

However, the ERC does not make calls for specific topics, since a guiding principle of ERC is that our researchers are free to pursue the goals they define and to decide on what they wish to work. In our view, this is a crucial way to generate the best science.

The Scientific Council wishes to clarify, in case of any doubt, that they absolutely endorse the view that scientific research will provide the best solutions to tackling pandemics, such as COVID-19.

Therefore, we regret Professor Ferrari's statement, which at best is economical with the truth. This Scientific Council remains dedicated to pursuing the mission for which the ERC was established: the support of bottom-up ground-breaking research. It is also worth noting that despite the pandemic, the ERC Executive Agency is struggling against the odds to actively process applications for our Consolidator Grants and Starting Grants, which will support researchers throughout Europe to make the discoveries of the future.

pocketem · 08/04/2020 15:17

Half of the residents in a Canadian care home have died of coronavirus. 27 of the 65 residents, plus the spouse of a resident, have died of the disease. The care home had a mix of private rooms and 4-bedded dorms. It was not until last week – after 16 deaths – that sick residents at the home were finally separated from healthy residents.

Following the fatalities, a reshuffle in the facility has finally allowed staff to move healthy residents to their own rooms.

“That’s the reason why we actually have the space now. Because we’ve lost residents,” Sarah Gardiner, a nurse at Pinecrest, told CBC News. “But before, there really was not the space to do that."

24 staff have also tested positive, and many more residents are presumed to have the virus.

Keepdistance · 08/04/2020 16:00

The Reuters article.
I'm surprised there was uk transmission So early 29/02 1at mar time as the italy returnees had just got back. Around 22/03.
It really does highlight all the gov failings.
Maybe we should locate the worried thread for those dates and send them to the gov/newspapers, highlighting that yes it was obvious nhs would be overwhelmed. And it's not like we had the info they did.
Although Reuters are almost making it as incompetence, it's clear they knew the numbers 500k and that didn't change so it was intentional.

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