Worried About Coronavirus- thread 36

[TheStarryNight]

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But the WHO have been warning governments. Governments haven't listened.

Oh my goodness that paper on the Netherlands’ potential two year exit strategy! I thought I was reasonably prepared for whatever it takes.... but two years (unless a cure is found and I know there are people working on this now)??
Apart from anything else, that’s such a large proportion of a child’s life.

Realistically is anyone on here expecting;

Kids back to school before September?

Shielding group to be allowed back into the world after their 12 weeks?

Loosening of lockdown to be reliant on SD measures?

I just can’t see any of those happening, not until we have more knowledge about what this thing really is, how it works, what the long term effects on those who ‘recover’ actually are and if a vaccine is viable in the foreseeable future. I made the analogy elsewhere of if lockdown is lifted too soon it will be like us walking in a field during a lightning storm, and the more I think of it now the more it makes sense.

....and scares the crap out of me

I might add

This situation is quite interesting. I live in a city and can actually see all the stars every night now. Also notice that people still sleeping and waking almost the same but with more stillness till about 10 am rather than 7. I wonder why that is seeing as we don't need to have that routine and being exposed to less light.

“Shielding group to be allowed back into the world after their 12 weeks?“

The shield thing is clearly stated as advisory.

They're extending the current restrictions for another week or so, apparently. They're saying it's because Johnson is ill at the moment, so the review will happen later. That suggests they won't be tightening controls either, which has been widely discussed. Or, not yet.

I'm wondering why Boris is still in ICU if he's 'stable' and 'in high spirits'?

He doesn't sound like he needs intensive care (or what I imagine ICU is like).

I don't think any intensive care doctor would be unnecessarily wasting an ICU bed on someone who didn't need it. Stable doesn't mean getting better it means not getting any worse.

They've said he's getting standard oxygen treatment too. Which doesn't require ICU.

Either he's worse than they're telling us or they've put him there because of who he is, as a precautionary measure.

Josiah Mortimer @josiahmortimer
The Times are reporting today that it could be another 10 or so days before Johnson is out of hospital - and he'll need roughly one week off for every day spent in ICU

I know someone who was in intensive care for observation. They had low oxygen.

They won't be wasting an ICU bed on someone who is perfectly able to go to a less specialist ward, but they won't be taking any chances with the PM.

Interesting replies. Yes undoubtedly they're being extra cautious with the PM.

It's funny, I got slammed a couple of days ago for even suggesting that the PM would be getting a level of treatment/care that might not be available to anyone else... and now it seems to be widely accepted.

Some figures which are concerning and need more explanation.

The ONS figures record the following:

Our latest data on weekly deaths registrations include deaths involving COVID-19. In the three weeks up to 27 March, there were 647 deaths in England and Wales involving COVID-19 (397 men and 250 women).

The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (568 out of 647), with 41% (233) of these occurring in the over-85 age group.

Our figures are based on deaths registered in the stated period and include all deaths where “COVID-19” was mentioned on death certificates. They differ from those published by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC), which are based on deaths occurring to date among hospital patients who have tested positive for COVID-19.

That's 38.6% women to 61.4% men.

Concerning is the Department of Health figures for deaths in hospital don't appear to be recording sex. I can't find a data set from the Doh directly recording this information. (if anyone can let me know)

What we do know is that there is research into those admitted to critical care by sex.

This states that 27% are women v 73% men. For non covid-19 viral pneumonia you'd expect a 46:54 split.

And the critical care data

I think it's a bit naive to think him being PM would make no difference at all, his care team must know that if he died there would be intense scrutiny of his treatment. On the other hand it would also be something of a scandal if it turned out he was being treated very differently to other patients. So what he would get is textbook care of the sort all patients should get but they will always err on the side of caution because that will be much easier to justify than a dead PM.

So what he would get is textbook care of the sort all patients should get

Yes, I have experience of family members getting precisely this level of care for serious respiratory illnesses, in non-CV19 times. They would not get it now, I expect.
They are going to prioritise patients now. The serving PM is going to have to be one of those lucky patients with the usual fully-staffed and equipped care. It is what it is, he was never going to be left at home with instructions to try and get through to 111 if he deteriorated.

The serving PM is going to have to be one of those lucky patients with the usual fully-staffed and equipped care. It is what it is, he was never going to be left at home with instructions to try and get through to 111 if he deteriorated.

^This. It sounds like the PM was in a similar condition to how I was but I was left with phoning 111. My DH called 999 when I couldn't breathe and the paramedics talked him through what to do. I was able to use my DH's asthma inhaler and that helped. (He has to teach me how to use it. )

With the PM, they obviously couldn't risk him dying before they could get to him, could they?

Mittens I’m sorry that happened to you. It’s not fair, it shouldn’t be happening.
We’ve always know this isn’t an equal society for many reasons. Some people will always get better care than others. PM is a figurehead. ‘Dies at home because 999 refused to attend’ was never going to be the headline.

Very disturbing about the sex difference not being collated.

Why isn't the sex difference being collated? Surely that's important to know. Are other countries checking? And why are they not recording care home deaths?

A relative of mine ( ICU & high dependency nurse practitioner) pioneered the observation of respiratory rate in determining whether a patient is stable enough to be moved from ICU to high dependency and vice versa. Her observations over a period of time showed that respiratory rate was far more of a diagnostic tool than bloods or O2 levels alone. Patients can often appear absolutely fine in ICU but can deteriorate rapidly. The signs are very subtle.
Having seen my DSis in ICU last year after neurosurgery become very ill in a matter of minutes having been sat laughing and joking with us, it is more than reasonable that Boris is happily sitting chatting to staff but have brittle respiratory obs that could mean he may need ventilating very rapidly.