BORIS TESTS POSITIVE

[startalovetrain]

So BoJo has COVID-19!

I hope he makes a speedy and full recovery - we need the government to sort out this crisis.

They got lots of pressure from scientists and reportedly within their own cabinet, to do a u turn

So your contention is that a Tory Government that understood public opinion so well in December that it won a landslide with a core vote of older people didn’t realize in January that permitting half a million old people to die would make it terribly unpopular?

That just doesn’t sound plausible, does it?

No it does not, but that was the case.

And if it had been a Labour government announcing the same measures, you would have said...?

I would have accepted them if they were limited in time and scope to combating the virus, as the current measures are.

But they wouldn’t have been. Corbyn and McDonnell wanted to permanently nationalize half the economy. This crisis would have given them the perfect excuse to nationalize the other half.

Now are you going to praise a Tory government - run by the Eton toff Boris Johnson, no less - that is spending huge amounts of public money to safeguard people’s lives and livelihoods?

13th March in FT

“About 60 per cent is the sort of figure you need to get herd immunity,” Sir Patrick told Sky News on Friday. That suggests up to 40m Britons might contract the disease under the government’s plan. As Mr Johnson concedes, many loved ones will die.

www.ft.com/content/0475f450-654f-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68

Mail 6th March

"Experts have said that up to 80 per cent of the entire British population could fall ill with coronavirus in a worst-case scenario. Dr Priestley added: 'If we get those kinds of numbers, nobody knows how we’d possibly cope."

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8082855/PM-pledges-extra-46m-coronavirus-vaccine-research.html

It was being predicted 60-80% infected for "herd immunity". Boris Johnson himself quoted different figures in thsi range.

In Mirror - Government saying 1% as upper rate for mortality.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11102884/coronavirus-cover-up-fury-government-stops-updating-public-daily-locations/

This was all being discussed in the context of the herd immunity theory. So yes the government were saying that a lot of people were going to die.

He has been doing a fantastic job during this crisis.

@Mlou32, could you explain what was fantastic about doing bugger all to stock up things like PPE and ventilators throughout February when they knew full well what was coming?

You’re living in a fantasy world. If the government wanted to accept half a million deaths, why are they pursuing the exact opposite policy, sacrificing the economy and suspending personal freedoms to save as many lives as possible? Your bullshit makes no sense.

Because they've done yet another U turn. You cannot deny that that was exactly their thinking in the early stages, because it's on record.

I think perhaps in the early days they didn't quite realise that the death rate was affected by treatment ...ie they didn't realise it would be higher if people could not be properly treated
How they missed that I amn't sure

This was all being discussed in the context of the herd immunity theory. So yes the government were saying that a lot of people were going to die

The minutes on 21st February clearly discuss the infection rate, the hospitalisation rate, the numbers needing ICU and the case fatality rate

app.box.com/s/3lkcbxepqixkg4mv640dpvvg978ixjtf/file/640968322003

Interestingly - there is no mention of herd immunity in any of the minutes.

It was obvious that many people would die to get herd immunity

But @cendrillonsings won't answer that - because they don't like dealing in facts and just say "But Corbyn"

Oh - and I see that Cenrillon now realises that anyone has access to the minutes and can read them- not just a Professor of War Studies

Let’s face it, if you think the Tory government is doing a great job it shows nothing more than your bar is impossibly low.

Allegedly, someone didn't check their emails about the EU ventilator scheme

I find that highly suspect - given Boris' view on taking back control

Does he feel like he has control?

Brussels slapped down Downing Street yesterday for claiming Britain did not join an EU scheme to supply more ventilators because of an email ‘mix-up’.

Boris Johnson’s spokesman said on Thursday that the UK had not taken part in the joint project because of an ‘initial communication problem’.

But yesterday Brussels rubbished that claim, saying British officials had sat in on key meetings to discuss the plans.

Mr Johnson is under pressure over the UK’s ventilator shortage after it emerged that thousands of machines the Government ordered may not arrive until after the peak of the coronavirus epidemic.

The Government was criticised when it emerged that the UK was not taking part in the EU scheme to boost the number of ventilators available to doctors.

It said: ‘Owing to an initial communication problem, the UK did not receive an invitation in time to join in four joint procurements.’

The Lancet absolutely scathing about the government's incompetent response

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - and its easy to look back at a warning and say people should have acted on it.

This is a Lancet article from Jan 31st in the Lancet

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30260-9/fulltext

Vaccine platforms should be accelerated for real-time deployment in the event of a second wave of infections. Above all, for health protection within China and internationally, especially those locations with the closest travel links with major Chinese ports, preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies, and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.

The way he handled it initially was terrible. Absolute madness. I'm pretty appalled to see some people wishing ill on him though. I hope he gets better.

chomalungma

Thanks for your links and commentary.

CendrillonSings
Herd immunity was a policy pursued initially.

In Ireland they took a different approach and Dr Hilary Jones on Good Morning Britain scoffed and said Ireland had to do that as they had no health service, which was untrue. He apologised the next day for being incorrect.

We looked on in amazement and despair that events like Cheltenham and major football matches were allowed in the UK.
Sadly, selfish idiots from Ireland went to Cheltenham where there had already been cases of Coronavirus.
Schools in Ireland were closed but across the border in Northern Ireland they were still open.

Subsequently the UK changed its approach

We looked on in amazement and despair that events like Cheltenham and major football matches were allowed in the UK

I was stunned when Cheltenham went ahead. How many infected people were there?

This is also disturbing

A heat map of people going to and from Florida for the Spring break

twitter.com/TectonixGEO/status/1242628347034767361

I wonder if that's been done for Cheltenham?

I'm frustrated too by people wishing severe illness on him. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I generally can't stand Boris or the Tory Govt. I hope he and anyone else affected recovers rapidly.

Likewise I have no truck with people sneering and saying "can you imagine how Corbyn would have coped"? Err same way as Boris I would imagine. Accept this wasn't his area of expertise and take the lead from public health experts.

I will hear many things against Corbyn, but I reckon we can clearly surmise that he wouldn't have happily told everyone he was still shaking hands. I accept there might be differences of expert opinion on how best to fight this, but I've yet to hear a single epidemiologist or clinician recommend that particular action.

I accept there might be differences of expert opinion on how best to fight this, but I've yet to hear a single epidemiologist or clinician recommend that particular action

When Boris talked about handshaking, his Chief Medical Officer should have said that was not a good idea.

But it is hard to criticise someone in power on a shared stage.

"Boris can go fuck himself! And I mean that in the kindest way imaginable!

I've had to make 20 of my people redundant today. My child is ill (not COVID-19 and, thank goodness not serious) and hundreds of miles away - and I can't get to her. Two of my friends have family stuck in places from where they cant get out. And ...

One of my colleagues lost his father today!

So, really, Boris has the best health care imaginable at his disposal. And he's forever lost any respect I may ever have had for him wit his "let's go for 'acceptable number of dead people to save the GDP'" type initial response. He may have relented, but he was too late to save himself from forever being an irredeemable arsehole in my mind.

Boris will be just fine! Good! This means he'll have a lot more time to realise just how utterly odious he is!"

Boris has been in power a few months. If Jezza had got into power we would be in exactly the same situation.

True chomalunga.

Boris has been in power a few months. If Jezza had got into power we would be in exactly the same situation

We would probably have been involved in the ventilator scheme with the EU.

Would we have been more organised with equipment for the NHS?

Would the shutdown of business have been supported by people - or would the media have criticised Corbyn?

We don't know - we can only speculate.

There will be a public enquiry after all this. A massive one. And there will be detailed questioning of everyone - especially the people who are supposed to know about these things and to prepare Government and the NHS for it.

We need to think now about what we are doing wrong - rather than having a post - mortem afterwards to find out what went wrong.

A pre-mortem.

The government has been in talks for weeks with UK businesses to build ventilators. They have already started production. An announcement will be made either today or tomorrow- it has not been overlooked.