BORIS TESTS POSITIVE

[startalovetrain]

So BoJo has COVID-19!

I have a Masters in Clinical Biochemistry which helps massively

With such qualifications it’s a wonder you weren’t called in to advise the government yourself, or even to management the whole pandemic response...

What do you think should have happened and when?

Absolutely no clue

Never ever have I pretended i do

I quite like experts, obviously like you like experts

But we seemed to follow Italy virtually identically, and i would have thought that we would be a bit ‘this is where italy has gone wrong’...now we could have done the same stuff for the same reasons and THAT i would understand

The handwashing thing always seemed similar to the advice of putting your head between your knees (and kissing your arse goodbye) in a plane crash

And I tried the head between knees bit...there was no fucking room in economy

I’ll be honest...I’d be loathe to criticize any country up until now for their response, i mean who fucking knew??

With such qualifications it’s a wonder you weren’t called in to advise the government yourself, or even to management the whole pandemic respons

It helps massively when looking at papers about viruses.

They were talking about the antibody test back in January.

Have you read the minutes yourself yet?

Let's face it - anyone who can do a google search and restrict it to pdfs is an expert in today's society (ps files not withstanding for linux fans).

A better source to quote would be Prof Devi Sridhar, who warned the govt about a pandemic 2 years ago..... she said today....
UK Prime Minister & Health Secretary have COVID. BJ & MH are changing their behaviour and notifying contacts to go into isolation BECAUSE they've been tested (test, trace, isolate). But not offering this to anyone else? Front-line health staff & responders also deserve the same

Scandalous and indefensible, unless you are ideologically tied to the Tory party and willing to put peoples health above legitimate criticism of Johnson... not going back over what should have been done months ago but what isn't happening now!

On testing

Late January - concerns raised about who to test - because of the availability of tests

MM asked whether DHSC wanted to identify individuals who are potentially infectious or,because international travel will continue to occur, there was an alternative objective in mind. Was there a more rational approach whereby we focus our attention on those who present at a hospital?

The reason that JMM brought this up is to highlight the known issues about the limited laboratory detection capability to make diagnosis and the large increase of travellers from a wider geographical area.

3.12NF asked DHSC whether the rational of the aim is to attempt to control the spread and limit it, in which case it would be logical to extend the definition to the whole of China regardless of testing capability. If it is for surveillance purposesthen it is fine to keep it more limited

Jan 28th - questions about PPE and the use of a pandemic stockpile

This is when we should have been stockpiling more

At present the plan is for the first cases of 2019-nCoV is that thesepatients will be managed on airborne HCID wards cared for by staff using high-level PPE. In the event of an escalation the next stage of surge for places of care for cases would be across the broader IDU network, again using high-level PPE. If sustained community transmission became established it is likely that IDU capacity would be exceeded and cases would then need to be managed on standard medical or respiratory wards for potentially a sustained period of time. This would entail deployment and use of the UK’s pandemic influenza PPE stockpiles. NERVTAG has previously opined that high-level PPE (FFP3 respirators) would be reserved for ICU settings and AGPs and SFMs for normal ward settings; this is for a pandemic influenza virus.

28th Jan

Members noted that this may be the wrong time to bring in this new HCID PPE recommendation as it may create more problems and risks especially where staff may need to be conduct complex medical procedures in this new HCID PPE.

Members notedthe value of familiarity of NHS staff with the current PPE standards and that roll out of a more complex system at a time of potentially intense NHS activity could be counterproductive.

However, all HCID units are trained appropriately to use this kind of equipment. It was also noted that the hoods are being brought up globally and should a decision be made later this could pose a risk in terms of availability

.5.6PH asked DHSC if it was possible to purchase the hoods without NERVTAG recommending them at this time? DHSC asked if there was any scientific basis for acceleratingintroduction ofthe new HCID PPE guidance at present?

There was not any clear evidence at this time that would suggest that hoods may be needed now or in the future of this incident.

had we had a Corbyn landslide at the last election, I cannot see the Labour party having led business into a lockdown with the trust from the commercial sector that the Tory party has. If Labour had shut everything down, business would be rebelling complete.

Even if he has screwed things up, and I absolutely think he has, we may still be better off with his screw ups than the Labour party making the right decisions.

^This.

nellodee I think you have that spot on. I've been wanting to discuss exactly this. If a Labour government had taken exactly the same actions, the Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, Taxpayers' Alliance etc would have foamed at the mouth so much you could have walked to France on the froth.

You only have to look at how hard some MN posters have been trying to deflect any criticism of the current govt with "But Corybn..." . IIRC, one poster from this thread even tried claiming (on another thread) that Labour would have spent the same amount of money as Sunak's coronavirus package, but without coronavirus. Laughable, but s/he spent the time typing it out.

It starkly shows up the non-democratic powers in this country, that we recognise that a democratically elected left-wing government would have really struggled to get the Tory measures accepted. There would have been very powerful opposition from factions opposing them because they were from "the wrong party."

I've been rolling my eyes at posters whining, "You're only criticising the herd immunity strategy and shortages of PPE because you is Boriz-haterz, how very dare you." Because I know fine bloody well how thoroughly the right-wing press would have destroyed a left-wing govt implementing the same lockdown and the same support packages, and shown no regard to the national interest whatsoever.

I saw at least one poster saying about Brexit, "Well, yes, I think Brexit will be bad for the UK. But it's worth it to get a Tory government." And then they accuse other people of playing party politics...

I criticise the herd immunity strategy because it is bollocks. It is simply an idea that would have killed half a million people

You dont need qualifications to spot the issues with herd immunity. Even using the governments own figures, they said it would kill half a million people, and they expected us somehow not to mind.

perking

That is such a good point - if Labour had tried to do any of this, the usual suspects would have been up in arms. The media would have needed massive convincing.

Even using the governments own figures, they said it would kill half a million people, and they expected us somehow not to mind

When they discussed herd immunity, did any of the journalists ask how many people would die? I can't remember what was said.

Thank god there are people on MN who know far more than the PHE experts and world leading epidemiologists we've been relying on so far.

I'm sure you'll be called upon soon to apply your expertise.

Thank god there are people on MN who know far more than the PHE experts and world leading epidemiologists we've been relying on so far

Those experts knew it was coming.

Did the Government do its job and prepare the country and its resources for it?

Such as PPE equipment?
Looking at mass testing and getting the kits
Getting ventilators -

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8159221/NHS-let-TWO-coronavirus-patients-use-ventilator-boost-intensive-care-capacity.html

The experts knew what was coming - the Government should have done its job

my feeling is that the government had to balance the need to contain and control the spread of the virus with the need to avoid civil unrest

@chomalungma I don't think so, it was very controlled. But the government talked about a 1% mortality rate and the percentage of people they wanted to get it. And if you worked it out it meant half a million would die.

And later they claimed the new imperial college study revealed for the first time that half a million would die. That was a lie. They had already known.

IIRC, one poster from this thread even tried claiming (on another thread) that Labour would have spent the same amount of money as Sunak's coronavirus package, but without coronavirus. Laughable, but s/he spent the time typing it out.

You could just try reading the Labour manifesto - they set out their gigantic pre-coronavirus tax-and-spend plans there.

They were rejected by the electorate in a historic, crushing defeat

@UYScuti Rubbish, Boris is a coward, that is the real issue.

I criticise the herd immunity strategy because it is bollocks. It is simply an idea that would have killed half a million people

You’re living in a fantasy world. If the government wanted to accept half a million deaths, why are they pursuing the exact opposite policy, sacrificing the economy and suspending personal freedoms to save as many lives as possible? Your bullshit makes no sense.

Thank you for confirming you said that, CendrillonSings. I didn't like to name you.

Got any actual figures to show us? Or just some melodramatic handwaving?

Also, since you're here...

Do you approve of the spending and restrictions by the current government?

@CendrillonSings That was the governments own figures. They got lots of pressure from scientists and reportedly within their own cabinet, to do a u turn,

Got any actual figures to show us? Or just some melodramatic handwaving?

Yup. Here’s the IFS analysis if the Labour manifesto:

www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/manifestos

In 2017 we said that “Labour would raise spending to its highest level since the 1980s and tax to record levels in peacetime” and also that they “would increase capital spending dramatically and would accept a much bigger budget deficit than would the Conservatives”. They have doubled down this time around. £50 billion of additional current spending has become £80 billion. A £58 billion promise to the so called WASPI women sits on top of that. Instead of aiming to increase investment spending by £25 billion a year they are now wanting a £55 billion increase. Taxes are not supposed to rise by £50 billion but by £80 billion. Under Labour both taxes and spending would rise to peacetime highs. On generous assumptions they would see the national debt rise by around 3% of national income.

And yes, I do approve of the government’s measures. They’re incredibly painful, but that’s the cost of saving lives in a once-in-a-century pandemic. As opposed to Labour’s plans to spend money like a drunken sailor just for the hell of it.

And what is the cost of the current government's coronavirus package?

Because your claim is that the amount is the same.

And yes, I do approve of the government’s measures.

And if it had been a Labour government announcing the same measures, you would have said...?

(Obviously you get to just lie at this point, if you choose. But I'm interested to see what you come out with.)