Low death rate in Germany

[Malteserdiet]

Germany is traditionally known as a nation that follows rules and runs a very efficient system. Italy, France, Spain and the UK less so - although of course all have their own positive merits.

Could this be a factor as to why they so far have a relatively low death rate? As of last night, Germany had over 9000 cases and 24 deaths. The UK has just over 2000 confirmed cases and yet already 71 deaths.

Perhaps we all need to take heed of the German people’s willingness to listen to and follow their government’s advice and do the same here to help reduce the impact of this virus.

If this is indeed a correct assessment of what’s going on then I would urge Boris to make this connection in his next speech to the UK public and hope that we can achieve the same.

ravenmum
The only source I have seen cited was The Times mentioned two Italian MPs. Obviously, political motives in Italy might influence politicians to cast doubt because Italy's figures are by comparison much worse.

Germans are big on handshaking, as ravenmum says - though that has been lessened over the past few weeks and some public offices etc put up signs every flu season explaining they're not shaking hands - but there isn't the kissing and embracing there is in other parts of Europe.

I detest supermarket shopping and have long been deeply envious of the Brit online shopping systems (been E German non-Speckgürtel small-town rural for almost the last decade, Berlin before that). Fortunately dh likes shopping so goes. The nearest place to here where there's any online shopping is Berlin. (Veg boxes excepted, but they have got very expensive lately). Dh reports that the supermarkets where we are have been moderately busy. No scrums and loo roll mostly still available.

I noticed yesterday that on a regional report of Covid-19 deaths they noted that three of the dead were diagnosed posthumously. That would suggest strongly that Covid-19 deaths are not being attributed to other things.

No chance of getting a REWE delivery slot in the near future where I am (also NRW). We have been self-quarantined since last Friday so no real idea what’s going on out there but friends have been complaining online about lack of toilet paper.

Ime experience Germans are pretty tactile and I have been relieved since Coronavirus emerged that i no longer have to tolerate awkward air kissing and handshakes.

Bavaria starting reasonable lockdown. Many groups just not listening and need a crash course in social isolation. www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/coronavirus-bayern-verhaengt-ausgangssperre - other states will soon follow. Just bloody NRW where I am not doing anything much.

no online shopping here unfortunately but our REWE does click & collect. It's a small-ish shop though and only small packets of stuff so it works out quite expensive.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-puzzles-experts?CMP=fbgu&utmmmedium=Social&utmsource=Facebook#Echobox=1584885163

Now we're not allowed to go for walks with children!

We live in the actual middle of nowhere...

Where is that? You don't mean Merkel's speech just now?
Just checked Süddeutsche's report on it, and it says people who live together/ families are allowed to go out together.
www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/coronavirus-news-deutschland-1.4828033

Or did she say something stricter now? The script isn't out yet.

Just have a much better medical system with many more ventilators

German DH was watching the speech, I wasn't really, was distracted.

DH said I can now only go out with one child at a time (have 3 and we've been going for long walks in the forest seeing the odd person or few people from a distance and easily staying many more tjan 2 meters apart)

I assume he has it right as it's his language and he was paying attention, but haven't googled.

I was too busy thinking how glad I am to have Merkel in charge and not Johnson, and now can't remember exactly what she said 😂
Even if you're right, it's still not horribly restrictive I'd say as long as you are not a single parent of more than one child...

I thinl I'll send tje teens on ahead and the 8 year old and I will meet them in the woods These rules aren't really made for people living 100 meters from forest and 7km from a shop or bus stop I don't think... We can so easily keep 20 meters distance from anyone outdoors let alone 2... Supermarkets are a far worse bet (DD thinks I'm mean not to take her to look at the empty shelves! )

Those annual sick leave numbers are incredible. An average of 18 days a year off sick? Almost four weeks a year per person? That’s incredible.

I have taken a fair bit of sick leave in my life due a compromised immune system but never to that extent. I can see perhaps Brits take too few due to a culture of presenteeism but that amount is incredible. Can anyone offer any insights into that ?

The core of it is that you are not allowed to be out in public with more than one person who is not part of your household. So families (who live together) can still go for walks etc together, or the members of a house or flat share would also be allowed out together. Or you could meet your friend or mother (who doesn't live with you) for a walk, but nobody else would be allowed to join you.

Food shopping, exercise/fresh air (respecting the above rule) and helping others all still allowed.

Cf. point 3 under the 17:51 entry here:
www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2020-03/coronavirus-liveblog-covid-19-pandemie

10.6 working days off sick/year on average, according to the Federal Statistical Office:

www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Arbeit/Arbeitsmarkt/Qualitaet-Arbeit/Dimension-2/krankenstand.html

Seems about right - thought 18 days sounded a bit high.

Does anyone know if Germany attributes death to the pre existing conditions if a Corona patient has one

No, if someone tests positive for Corona and dies, that is the cause of death. I heard that from a scientist at the Robert Koch institute at his press conference on Friday.

CatteStreet and ravenmum are right, anothernotherone, your DH is wrong. Families are exempt from the 2 person max rule: Ausnahmen gibt es für Familien

Binterested The sick leave attitude drives me nuts. I work in adult social care in a 24/7 isolated unit - we're a team of 8 and we have to cover between us no matter what - ideally with 2 people working at all times except the on-call on site sleep-in from 22:00-06:00.

I've got colkeagues who call in and say"There are 3 of us on today so put me down as sick" (they could say "do you mind if I don't come in, I've got plans/ had a late one, but then they would have to make up the hours some other time). Having 3 on duty should mean we can do 1:1 or small group skills training or long term planning or take the least independant on outings but they'll decide to have a paid duvet day so it's impossible. Or I'll wake up from a night to a Whatsapp voice message saying "I've got a bit of a headache and you're there anyway, put me down as sick"! So I'll have to cover the early shift alone.

Ive done solo 24 hour shifts because of the fakers so often but its absolutely taboo to mentuon it. I do mention it because I'm an arse like that, but people get very British ( I always think) and embarrassed - not about their behaviour but about the topic - and brush it under the carpet. Its very odd. Of course it's good that people call in sick when actually sick, but it shafts tje team in a jib like mine when piss takers can't be addressed!

One team mate and I only had one sick day each last year, everyone else had 20+ and one woman - the worst for "just put me down as sick" calls - over 40!

Thank goodness for that CatteStreet and uglyswan !

That is very odd and not what we think of as German behaviour (I know nothing of Germany so that’s just stereotype on my part. I do know the French are massive hypochondriacs and use antibiotics for every tiny little thing though - sorry French people but it’s true ).

How does Germany end up with such good productivity rates? Maybe those who stay in work like otherone are so efficient that they do their own work and their colleague’s work all at a more productive rate than two equivalent British workers who both turned up to do a day’s work but are doing it British style

I think you're unlucky, anothernotherone - I've never known real consistent pisstakers either (and ten years ago I was given a nasty dose of swine flu almost certainly by a presentee Praktikant in my office ). I do sympathise - that behaviour would infuriate me.

The typical German working week's longer than the British - 40-41h in most places.

The RKI president (Germany'spublic health chief) stated in a press conference that

each death where the test shows that there is the Covid-19 virus in the deceased person
is counted as Covid-19 victim

We're in Berlin. DD1, who is currently between bachelors and masters and who was hoping to do an internship for the next few months, has just applied instead for a 6-month contract with the Robert Koch Institute, doing telephone tracing of contacts and keeping tabs on infected people at home - job title 'containment scout'. Be interesting to see if she gets the gig. I imagine as an employer the RKI will be quite hot on distancing policies!