Low death rate in Germany

[Malteserdiet]

Germany is traditionally known as a nation that follows rules and runs a very efficient system. Italy, France, Spain and the UK less so - although of course all have their own positive merits.

Could this be a factor as to why they so far have a relatively low death rate? As of last night, Germany had over 9000 cases and 24 deaths. The UK has just over 2000 confirmed cases and yet already 71 deaths.

Perhaps we all need to take heed of the German people’s willingness to listen to and follow their government’s advice and do the same here to help reduce the impact of this virus.

If this is indeed a correct assessment of what’s going on then I would urge Boris to make this connection in his next speech to the UK public and hope that we can achieve the same.

Germans shake hands with everyone; workmates etc. Brits are far less tactile in that regard.

They have more ITU beds per population. They have better staffing. Their government values their health system.

I'm in the NRW hotspot - people here are taking it seriously, with shops (like my local bakery, which is hopefully in the attached photo) having helpfully marked out areas so that we can keep the recommended distance apart. There is nobody outside (we are currently working still in our company since we each have our own office and we're only 5. We all live locally - i will switch to WFH if there is a lockdown).

I'm not sure if the central government can declare a state of emergency - it could be that each of the federal states has to do that for themselves but i guess they would all do it simultaneously. And of course each town/municipality can do it for themselves as we've seen in Bayern.

The phone tracking is… weird, but not unexpected. If things continue in some places as they are now i expect a full lockdown to be announced tomorrow.

There's an optician opposite my office. They are closed but have a number on the door in case you have some kind of glasses related emergency. The chemist on the other side of us has suddenly developed a huge plexiglass screen and the staff are all wearing masks but not gloves and seem a bit unsure of protocol because he held out his hand for me to put my money in.

The players at the football (1. Bundesliga) team that i support are not drawing their salaries for the foreseeable as we're a club without too much cash. Which is nice.

Yes handshaking and kissing seem to be the norm. My experience is that people are tactile.

Brefugee that’s really helpful in the bakery. It sounds a bit more sorted where you are then where DB is. That’s really good of your footie team.

They showed those markings on TV, but in the report you could see people just walking straight up behind the person in front without noticing the markings! Good idea in theory, but when you've paid, also, you still have to walk past a load of other people, and here no-one seems to be thinking about trying to keep a distance ...

Well, the markings seem to be having an effect and it isn't that people don't try to crowd, it's that the people being crowded are turning round and telling people to back the fuck off.

I was in Aldi the other evening (before markings were a thing) and everyone was keeping a lovely distance at the checkout - but the guy behind me (really tall - his mouth was above my head hight) was really up close and coughing and spluttering and moaning about how long everything was taking (it wasn't. It's Aldi)

And in the end i just half turned and told him if he didn't back up I'd start making a lot of noise. And he wouldn't have move but the woman in front heard (I hadn't intended that) and glared at him. So he did. In the photo i posted you open the door and walk along to the furthest space, then when that person leaves everyone moves up one and the people queuing outside the door get closer (luckily they have two doors so now one is in and one is out)

Which is having the FANTASTIC effect that Germans are finally finally fin-a-bloody-leeeee having to queue properly in bakeries and not just giving people the side eye for pushing in (it's just usually a huge scrum). I hope this is something that sticks after the crisis.

Round here (normal to affluent bit of NRW, not an area with crazy cases), I heard the Baumärkte were overrun with people, and custoners were only let in a few at a time. You couldn't get in. What do these people know? Otherwise a quick supermarket shop (small supermarket, no car park is the trick) was surprisingly calm and normal, only the pasta, loo roll and rice were gone, packed bread a little bare but not fully. Weirdly not apocalyptic, thankfully!

@Brefugee Germans learning to queue

It is my dream come true! every cloud etc...

Back to the thread title, unfortunately the death toll seems to be rising now, previously it was early days, hopefully we will get this under control. Germany’s history will mean ethicL issues with a lockdown, but people aren’t complying. If Bavaria leads with stricter measures, the rest will follow.

@stella1know my dh went to Bauhaus. If we are in lock down he might as well get all those odd jobs done

I’m interested if anyone knows

Are your shops shut and who is paying the wages of staff? If it’s the company and lock down goes on longer will the government pay the wages and how will they do it? Direct to staff or fill out form paid to company immediately?

I have a question some people living in Germany might be able to help me with.
My daughter and I have a fever and a cough so the whole family will have to isolate now.
I have a Rewe shop slot for Monday that I booked two weeks ago. I order two crates of water every time, drink them, and then the driver always takes the empty bottles back and it balances out the Pfand.
I've obviously touched and drank from all those bottles.
My plan was to get the driver to just leave all shopping on the stairs but I have to sign for it. And what should I do about the pfand? Give them back? Keep the crates until this all dies down? Burn them?

@neoflex - i had a dwlivery this week and was notified by emails that the driver would leave all deliveries at the door, without signing. He took the crates back that I had left outsider and no refusal to do so was mentioned in the email. So they are taking Pfandstuff back and haven't yet had enough cases to disrupt the Pfand system! They maybneed to do so soon though!
If you have the suspicion, it would be kinder (for vulnerable customers on the same delivery round) to not give the crates back. Could you leave a note on the door saying self isolation due to suspected contact, please leave delivery at door. Pfandkisten you will retain?

Awful typos. I apologise. Typing in a hurry.

Does anyone know if Germany attributes death to the pre existing conditions if a Corona patient has one? There's an article about Italy's comparatively high death rate which claims that Italy is attributing all deaths involving corona to the virus, irrespective of underlying conditions. It suggests that the disparity between how different European countries record deaths makes comparison difficult.

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/

Neoflex sorry I can't answer your question but - WHAT? You have online grocery shopping?

The Getränkemarkt is the only place that delivers around here - as much beer and fizzy water as you want, but we've never had a supermarket delivery service at any price!

stella1know you have supermarket deliveries too? Are you both in the center of major cities?

A couple of people have said on this thread that Germany attributes death to pre-existing conditions - but no-one has offered a source for that. I can't see anything about that in German newspapers.

In the German news it always says how many of the people who died of Corona had pre-existing conditions, so it seems only logical to me that the figures must include people who've died of Corona but had some other condition ...?

Here in Dresden, Rewe delivers.

ravenmum I guess everyone posting about internet grocery shopping in Germany as though its normal must be in big cities. I know one suppermarket delivers in one area of central Munich but not in suberbs/ towns let alone villages. Ive been checkinh every 6 months or so for the last 12 years.

It is only Rewe that delivers here - and until now, the only people I knew that used the service were non-Germans :) Most people round here my age are quite suspicious of the internet in general! This will make it more popular.

In the German news it always says how many of the people who died of Corona had pre-existing conditions, so it seems only logical to me that the figures must include people who've died of Corona but had some other condition ...?

Yes. That seems logical. The Telegraph article states that Italy ascribes Corona as the cause of death irrespective of pre existing conditions and suggests that might not be the case in other European countries. It also cites an older population and high smoking rates as contributory factors in Italy's death rate. But I guess that differences in how deaths are recorded, if they exist would make comparison difficult. I would imagine if Corona is present, it would usually be cited as cause of death.