Lockdown won't work in U.K

[belay]

Because we are too rebellious. I cannot envisage people staying indoors for any length of time

Did I hear Boris right. If you are self isolating don't go out except for exercise and then keep your distance. So you have to self isolate but it's ok to go out for your 10K run?

DH says the reason folk are banned from cycle rides in Spain is in case they have an accident & have to be attended by emergency services.

So much better to develop heart disease loneliness & anxiety, I guess.

DH says the reason folk are banned from cycle rides in Spain is in case they have an accident & have to be attended by emergency services

I have wondered about the effect of quarantining people at home and a rise in DIY related accidents.

It might be part of it, but mostly it's just to stop people taking the piss. Before they got strict Madrid was heaving with people jogging and on their bikes with the kids.

Kind of defeats the object.

I do find some of it odd.

The point of lockdown and isolation is to not pass it on.

So, if I go out to walk my dog. we live in a town, in a quiet cul de sac. I can walk down my road, on to a footpath and then tp a nature reserve. I do pass a number of people, but can easily pass on the other side of the road, ie more than 10 m apart. Even on the footpath there is room for that.
In fact this morning, all the dog walkers I met were choosing to pass at a distance and wave, instead of stopping to chat. We can pass at a greater distance if necessary.

I just find it hard to understand why that wouldn't be allowed.
if we are not allowed to walk dogs, I forsee a huge rise in serious dog bite incidents in the home, as frustrated under- exercised dogs mix with frustrated house- bound kids.

and that is true of many things. Rise in suicide from those struggling with isolation.
Rise in domestic violence incidents,
Rise in child abuse (especially physical abuse) incidents

It is all very well to say everyone has obey lockdown, but lockdown is extreme due to the risk of increase in other things

PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO WALK THEIR DOGS

The point of lockdown and isolation is to not pass it on

The point is to minimise the risk of passing it on. They're not looking at individuals' schedules. It won't make perfect sense for everybody - no blanket operation can. Do you really want them to spend time looking into people's diaries to check whether each of their daily movements will be viable?

I just find it hard to understand why that wouldn't be allowed. It IS allowed. Going for a run or a jog or a bike ride in the park is not. You can go out if you NEED to. Lots of people have dogs in flats and need to take them out, so walking your dog is allowed, keeping a metre apart from others.
It has to be a blanket ban on everything except things people need to do or everyone just takes the piss and then it's pointless.
I really don't know why people seem to find it so hard to comprehend and keep trying to pick holes in it. It's not complex. You stay at home as much as possible. You can go out to:
To buy essentials from supermarkets or pharmacies
To go to work. Everyone must telework if they can.
To return to your primary place of residence, if you are away
To visit needy relatives or vulnerable people
To visit the doctor or hospital, but you should phone first.
To visit financial institutions, i.e cash points
Due to force majeure or need and to carry out unspecified activity that can be justified as a valid reason.
Can I socialize with my friends?
Um no, the whole point is that people need to stay home and socially distance to try and slow down spread of COVID-19.
You'll be stopped if you are spotted sitting in a park chatting with friends. The message is very clearly "Stay home and stay isolated".
You are not even allowed to visit your neighbours home or pop over to a friend's for lunch. The idea is to stop all social interaction to try and slow the curve of contagion.
Dog walking (briefly) is allowed. Outdoor exercise is not.

www.thelocal.es/20200314/coronavirus-what-you-can-and-cant-do-during-spains-state-of-alert

It is neither feasible nor desirable to get the police to spend too much time checking whether people really have a valid reason to be out in the streets. As with everything, this will depend on a combination of random spot checks + people's own diligence and sense of responsibility. Considering that yesterday night I saw plenty of old people in pubs, I really despair on the latter point. If stupid people killed only themselves with their stupidity it would be one thing, but they don't, that's the problem.

Look at what's happening in Italy: people can still go out but the police do random checks and ask you why. If your reason is invalid, you can be fined. Can you game the system? Yes, it's always possible. Will you understand you shouldn't? That's the point.

Although I can't understand why anybody is confused, I do think it will make it more confusing if people keep referring to what other countries are doing. Until we have lockdown, we don't know how they'll play it. Speculating that outdoor exercise is not allowed, for example, is confusing, because currently, here, it's been specified that it is allowed.

In lockdown it's much easier to police because there is hardly anyone on the streets. At the moment in the UK it would be impossible to police people going to bars etc because it's all just advisory, isn't it? Once you are locked down like in Spain and Italy then the streets are pretty empty and you don't need vast numbers of police patrolling around.
And people understand it's serious and know what they can and can't do and on the whole stay in.

Speculating that outdoor exercise is not allowed, for example, is confusing, because currently, here, it's been specified that it is allowed. exactly because you aren't locked down. People keep going on about how lockdown won't work in the UK because of dogs, exercise and "the rebellious nature of the British" but what some of us with actual experience of nationwide lockdown are saying is that it would work in the UK because it would be made to. The same as it is elsewhere. That the reasons it "can't" work are totally spurious.

That the reasons it "can't" work are totally spurious

Agreed. And tedious.

PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO WALK THEIR DOGS

on the radio yesterday, when someone asked what they were allowed to do and not to do when self isolating, they were told in no uncertai terms by the government official.

NO walks
No walking the dog
No visiting shops - get an on-line shop etc.

So forgive me if I go by somethign a gov official said on radio 4.

Now I understand that self isolating is not the same as lockdown, but it is not unreasonable to assume that it is similar.

Of course they cannot micro manage all of us. But as the point of lock down is to minimise spread, people would actually be more compliant for the full 12 weeks or whatever if there was space for common sense.

Unlike many on here, I do have some faith in the Great British public.

Was this government official talking about self-isolation by people who already have the symptoms? There is a distinction between saying:

if you have the symptoms, don't leave the house no matter what, try to have groceries delivered

and

in a lockdown, if you don't have the symptoms, you can go to buy groceries taking some precautions, eg no more than x people in the shop, keep a certain distance from each other etc

"Unlike many on here, I do have some faith in the Great British public."

The point is that a small, unrepresentative minority of idiots is all it takes for all of this to become pointless.

SELF ISOLATING IS NOT LOCKDOWN

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3849905-Self-isolation-and-lockdown-quarantine-are-not-the-same

Self isolating is when you have or suspect you have the virus.
Lockdown is when social distancing is enforced on everyone to prevent contagion. Most people under lockdown don't have the virus so can still go out when necessary but the massively reduced amount of social contact ona nationwide scale slows the spread.

Now I understand that self isolating is not the same as lockdown, but it is not unreasonable to assume that it is similar.

Similar but not the same. Self isolation is not the same as preventative mass social distancing. And seeing as it is not the same, it negates all the reasons (dogs, exercise, we'll all starve) why people keep bleating about how it won't work.

If they want to impose lockdown like Spain and italy (and now France to an extent) they will. And it will be made to work. Just like here.

The point is that a small, unrepresentative minority of idiots is all it takes for all of this to become pointless

That's not true. Everything we do to minimise the risk will help. Idiots will make it marginally less effective, rather that not effective. People will think it's pointless, and make it more pointless, if people keep peddling the idea that it's pointless. We need to be making sure that everybody is aware that they have the power to make themselves and others more or less vulnerable. And that being an idiot would risk their own health,mane those they love.

It's not a black and white measure. The shade of grey will correlate to the number of idiots.

Well there will be huge mental health issues because staying inside with kids is horrendous. Teens are going to be incredibly bored and screen addicted too. Seriously, not a joke

Of course there will, and people should be advised how to take care of their mental health. But it's not good enough to say we shouldn't lock down because people won't like it.

We're really bored here and the kids are watching more tv. But people are really pulling together, schools have set up online classrooms, loads and loads of things have gone online, from yoga classes to music concerts, to exercise classes to access to culture, like museums and libraries. The attitude is, we can do it if we look after each other. There is a hashtag "Lo paramos juntos" We'll stop it together. Lo paramos unidos, we'll stop it if we are united.

It makes me proud to be (almost, still waiting for citizenship) Spanish.

Birdandsparrow, it's great to hear that people in Spain are pulling together🌻🌞🌻

Was this government official talking about self-isolation by people who already have the symptoms?

In response to someone over 70 who was planning to self isolate due to age, so no symptons

" People will think it's pointless, and make it more pointless, if people keep peddling the idea that it's pointless".

You misunderstood me. Or I wasn't clear. I never for a second meant to imply it's pointless. I only wanted to stress the great risks and danger which even only a small minority of idiots can pose to themselves and to the whole of society.

Like yesterday evening, while driving to get my groceries, why the were there so many old people in the pubs????

why the were there so many old people in the pubs????

Pretty sure it wasn’t just old people in the pubs. This applies to us all, irrelevant of age. Please can we just stop with the ageism? It’s always been rife on MN but it’s ramped up to ridiculous levels in the last week.

None of us should be going to pubs or restaurants, whether we’re 18 or 98.