The very stubborn elderly

[Jocasta2018]

How on earth are we going to get the stubborn elderly to self-isolate?
I know one couple, one has had a massive stroke leading to partial paralysis 15 years ago, various TIAs since then plus a heart attack and smokes like a chimney.
The other, again a heavy smoker, gets every chest infection going round, requiring antibiotics, and has had pneumonia twice in the last 3 years.
Both are 79.
And yet they refuse to change their ways. Out every day, doing the shopping, going to the local towns, having days out.
They have children nearby that can bring them shopping.
They seem to think that if affected, they will get the sort of treatment they received when the major stroke happened 15 years ago. If treatment is going to be rationed, with their problems, I can imagine they'll be last on the list.
I don't know if it's bravado or whether they just don't understand the situation.
Any ideas or do we just let them get on with it?

What will happen to the elderly who need care in their own homes if everyone is on lockdown? Presumably carers will still be able to do their jobs (assuming they are not ill themselves)? I have an auntie who needs carers four times a day and has lots of help from family too including nieces and nephews staying overnight every night. God love her she doesn't have a great quality of life but she's still completely compus mentus.

I really don't understand this 'life must be prolonged at all costs!' thing. They fitted a pace maker to my grandad when he was in his mid 80's, immobile, deaf , and in the early stages of dementia. I mean, why? So he could linger on a couple more years, his body and mind gradually disintegrating until he finally succumbed? To quote the elderly lady from 'Chocolat', 'Dying is what old people do'. Absolutely everyone needs to be made aware of the risks of contacting this coronavirus, maybe even encouraged to isolate if they're happy to do so, but I really can't get my head around people bullying their relatives about it, stopping visiting them, calling them selfish, threatening them with JAIL for God's sake - that's horrible.

They fitted a pace maker to my grandad when he was in his mid 80's, immobile, deaf , and in the early stages of dementia. I mean, why?
it means the nursing home can still collect fees from him?

as in he is no longer regarded as a person, more a conduit for income?

carers will still be able to do their jobs
already paid a pittance with difficult working conditions, I dont think they'll feel the pay is enough to risk respiratory illness?

I will not be able to get my father to self isolate. Hes 75, he is in better health than a lot of 35 year olds - GPs words not mine. He has already said he wont

UYScuti Sadly I can't say I'd blame them.

Actually I've just thought of something. I have a friend who has two children, one of whom is at school with mine. This friend is a carer and works in a residential care home, and has told me that a few other carers have children at the same school. Even if the home is closed to all visitors, it'll still need carers to operate, some of whom will be living with and looking after children who have probably been exposed. I can't see that ending well at all.

Mil had a dnr and had advanced dementia (didn't know who anyone was or who she was herself), was immobile and doubly incontinent. The dnr only applies to resuscitation. Every bout of pneumonia she had resulted in her being ambulanced off to hospital and treated. It was cruel, but those are the rules.

I really think that there will necessarily have to be a rethink on the hippocratic oath with regards to very ill and elderly people in the light of this virus.

He has already said he wont
he says that now but imo there will be 'social sanctions' for people who are openly breaking rules which are set to help society as a whole, it wont be long before 'rule breakers' are subject to disapproving looks etc...

I can understand their perspective. They're risking others' health though and health workers and the description of having to die alone because loved ones have to be quarantined is very sad, as is not being given ghe necessary supports because the elderly will not be favoured over younger patients. Nobody wants that, it's heart breaking.

Every bout of pneumonia she had resulted in her being ambulanced off to hospital and treated. It was cruel, but those are the rules

They’re not the rules. I stopped my mum being prescribed antibiotics and the care home was absolutely clear that on no account was she to be admitted to hospital.

Over the last two years, DMIL has upset all her carers and DSIL to the extent that residential care is the last resort as she can no longer contain her anger and vitriol. The care home have locked down against CV19, so her pleas to return home are going unanswered and the home is locked down for the residents' health/safety. She wants constant care and attention, rather than an hour in the morning and another hour at night. I'm sure some of the staff will have young children at school but frankly that's no more of a risk than us (300 miles away) not being able to keep her clean and fed. She's not computer-literate and can barely hear our end of a phone call anymore. Much less remember what was said.

Same situation with my 77 year old father. He's an intelligent, ex-businessman, in good health apart from a little high BP, lives alone (widower) in a fairly isolated environment , goes daily to his local garage to pick up the Times, and then to his main town 12 miles away to do a weekly shop.

He watches the news but now turns the tv off as it's only about coronavirus, doesn't have the internet, and, as far as he's concerned, this is not even as bad as flu! When I tell him to take precautions when he goes shopping, I just get a 'Yeh, yeh' response, and 'It won't reach here'.

But it is reaching there.. he must take this seriously!

Many older people consider themselves fit and healthy despite managed health conditions because they still live an active independent life. FIL 79 has had a heart attack and is on BP and other medications but believes that he is not one of those with 'underlying health conditions' and has no intention of self isolating. MIL in her 70's volunteers in a hospital, helps at a local baby and toddler group and has an active social life has no intention of stopping. They think that the media and social media are making us hysterical and it's only flu they've had worse blah blah blah.

We have pleaded with them both and it has caused huge arguments but they will not be told.

My FIL is 82. His brain is stuck at age 19. He goes out drinking every Friday night to town with men half his age and he keeps up with them. He is a social animal and charming to boot. He has laughed his way through life and drives me and DH (his son) to despair with the many scrapes he gets himself into, and there have been many.
His current hobby is making gin and I suspect it's not the legal kind
I almost envy this man for his childlike oblivion to the serious things in life.
There isn't a cat in hell's chance of him socially distancing himself from anyone.

Leaving apart my responsible hat, I rather envy that ww2 spirit of live for today and let the devil take the hindmost. A bit of me thinks it's a healthier way to live and die. But my aged parents and in-laws are not the issue: DH is mid60s with health issues - under control- and he is not willing to risk any exposure at all, even to the point of asking me not to attend my pre-bought exercise classes. I wouldn't mind so much but I have just bought two new two month terms and only used one of each series.

It sounds trivial I know, but I don't have much personal money each month to spend how I want and to lose 25% of it to assuage his fearfulness... I hate how petty this sounds.

One of my parents takes a million pills a day - but according to them - is fit as a fiddle.
(Very elderly, but still living at home)
They might be forced to change their habits, eg if the local pub & cafe close, but they don't consider they are in the at risk group.

I don't think they are in danger, the bigger the arsehole, the longer they live, the nice ones die young in my family.

Bottom line is though the government have said the plan is to ASK them to self isolate so ultimately it's their decision. The Scottish government have a better idea (theres something I never thought I'd say) and are asking them to reduce social contact and not self isolate if they feel ok.

My mum was quite distressed last night at the idea of 4 month isolation. She thought it was an enforced one and she had no option.

Today reading about social distancing shes making very sensible decisions about things shell stop doing & things that for now shell continue to do. There has to be a balance. I dread to think what impact a long isolation would have on her MH. That would probably be a lot more damaging in her opinion than her catching covid 19.

My dad is also in Scotland and think he will find it easier than the English rule

My dad is 73 and had an aortic valve replacement less than a month ago. He’s also diabetic and had a triple bypass 8 years ago. He’s taking things seriously and has said to me that he thinks we should cancel our Easter holiday to a caravan park.

My mum is 68, diabetic with a history of bronchitis. She thinks it’s all over blown hype and when I tried to talk to her earlier about how we would cope with a lockdown - I could get their shopping and pick up prescriptions, she virtually screamed down the phone at me that it was ridiculous and I don’t know what pills she has anyway!
Any suggestion that she could write them down for me was shot down in flames.

I suspect mum will eventually stay home if she absolutely, legally is made to, until then she will go to town every day and eat on the market. It’s quite worrying.

They have every right to carry on like this but they should not expect preferential treatment by the NHS should it come to it. They'll be last on the list and it will be their own fault sadly. If theyre willing to take that risk then crack on

My dad is 71. Very healthy, cycles everyday, no health problems, has never smoked. Plays badminton and table tennis twice a week. He is going to go stir crazy stuck in the house. One of his friend's lives in the house behind his, another next door but one, I can't see them stopping seeing one another. To get to the friend backing onto him, they don't need to come into contact with anyone else, it's a ten second walk from my dad's backdoor to his. I can't see how the benefits of them both staying locked in metres away from eachother, will outweigh the risks of isolation to their mental health.

Dh just went round to our elderly neighbours (mid 80s, not that you’d know it) to pass on our mobile numbers and said please call if you want anything picking up etc. They were like thanks, but we’re fine. Think they’ll just carry on as normal. My in-laws on the other hand have gone totally the other way. They’re mid 60s and have basically said we’ll see you all in July. They’re no longer willing to look after the dc 1 day a week as they previously had or see us at all. They’ve cancelled gym membership and all other activities and are only going out when absolutely necessary. I do worry how these extreme measures will start to effect their mental health. I fear mil might end up murdering fil.

I told my mum she needs to isolate as much as possible and have offered to do all her shopping etc. She’s 70 and has asthma and about half a dozen bouts of pneumonia which have left her lungs scarred. Other than that she has an active social life and keeps herself well. However, her comment this evening was ‘I’ve only just turned 70 so this isolation doesn’t apply to me’

I give up 🤦‍♀️