The very stubborn elderly

[Jocasta2018]

How on earth are we going to get the stubborn elderly to self-isolate?
I know one couple, one has had a massive stroke leading to partial paralysis 15 years ago, various TIAs since then plus a heart attack and smokes like a chimney.
The other, again a heavy smoker, gets every chest infection going round, requiring antibiotics, and has had pneumonia twice in the last 3 years.
Both are 79.
And yet they refuse to change their ways. Out every day, doing the shopping, going to the local towns, having days out.
They have children nearby that can bring them shopping.
They seem to think that if affected, they will get the sort of treatment they received when the major stroke happened 15 years ago. If treatment is going to be rationed, with their problems, I can imagine they'll be last on the list.
I don't know if it's bravado or whether they just don't understand the situation.
Any ideas or do we just let them get on with it?

@TheMemoryLingers ahhh I don’t know, she also reminisces about sleeping under her fathers military coat to keep warm, ice inside the windows in the winter and how weak kids are these days because most haven’t lived through hardship. Depression and MH issues mean you aren’t strong in character. She’s one of a kind!

I am in the same position with my 83yr old mum. She refuses to buy in any provisions, wants to hang out in cafes, use buses etc and she has a heart condition. She has even just bought a new puppy fgs. I warned her that she would be last on the priority list if she got sick. She doesn't appear to care and believes it's fine to mingle socially and preventing loneliness is more important. The irony is she will be made more lonely if she gets sick and is then in complete isolation.

My DF is 86 he just says what will be will be. He has a good social life and would rather be dead than confined to his house.

My mother is the same. The problem is, for the government strategy to work they are the ones who need to not get the virus.

@Dustymaiden - DF 92 is exactly the same.

He has mid stage dementia but lives alone supported by carers. We would have to lock him up for what might be a substantial part of his remaining lifespan - and to what end? The man he once was would not have wanted to die of end stage dementia with all that involves. He made that clear when he was nursing my DM through it.

Grim choices either way.

I'm having the same problem with my step mum who is 68. She is a smoker, obese, has asthma and diabetes so very vulnerable. She basically told me the other day, "it'll be what it'll be," and I felt like screaming at her.

I'm 'fortunate' in that both my mum and NILL are in care homes, so someone else is taking care fo the hygiene element, and I won't have to pick up the pieces if they get ill.

But I spoke to my much-loved aunt (91) last night. She's extremely active, goes out every day, and is somewhat slipshod in general about boring stuff like (say) food hygiene etc. I tried to talk to her about handwashing, but she just laughed. And no way is she likely to stop going to church, or her daily trip to Morrisons.

She has the constitution of an ox. I think I'm more concerned that she'll pass it on liberally than die of it.

My elderly GPs (80s) are exactly the same. My Grandad had a tumour removed from his lung last year, grandma is in poor health. I keep trying to tell them as Kindly as I can that they are in a very high risk category so they should practise some social distancing but won't listen. They "like their routine" which basically involves a lot of public transport and visiting public areas. I honestly despair- short of locking them in their own home I'm not sure what I can do.

I understand some people want schools to close but then I just think what good is it going to do really if (some of) the most vulnerable won't help themselves.

Same problem here. They won't stop their routines and I am 4 hours away so its very hard. I have lots of guilt.

If you are very elderly you have limited time left even without Covid. I can understand not wanting to live that little time hunkered down at home bored, scared and lonely.

M&S today was full of 70+ meandering about. Cafes full of them too. Could have done their shopping in the week when quiet but, no. Heaven forbid they change their routines. Fine to be reckless but don’t expect ventilation in ITU

But I spoke to my much-loved aunt (91) last night. She's extremely active, goes out every day, and is somewhat slipshod in general about boring stuff like (say) food hygiene etc. I tried to talk to her about handwashing, but she just laughed. And no way is she likely to stop going to church, or her daily trip to Morrisons.

IME it is these older people who live longer, social active and independent. The people that stop moving and stop socialising do worse. And I work in housing and the ones that never leave their block of flats are often sad, hostile to neighbours and don't get help from others when needed.

Let's not take away a survival mechanism from older people. It would be much better if younger people tried really hard to stop the spread.

If you are very elderly you have limited time left even without Covid. I can understand not wanting to live that little time hunkered down at home bored, scared and lonely.

^this. I think I'd be the same. I'd rather burn the candle and live life while I had it than hoard it hiding from the inevitable.

There are worse deaths than ones from a short, acute illness.

DH and I (60s) are practicing 'social distancing' and other hygiene practices. Luckily we live semi-rurally and there aren't a lot of large 'gathering places' nearby to avoid and our grocery store is uncrowded at 6am when we go shopping. We don't want a situation where our adult children are having to do our shopping or drop by with things, let alone have to take care of us!

Frankly, if DH and I were going about 'business as usual' I'd expect our sons to give us a telling off ending with 'and don't expect us to take care of you if you won't do your best to avoid being exposed".

@Jocasta2018: I think for me the problem is that if they became ill as a result of their stubbornness, they would expect their children to drop everything (including their jobs and own children!) to look after them.

Yes, this is my main issue with a certain elderly person in my life. They are doing nothing to change their lifestyle and if they get ill, my husband and I will be expected to drop everything and help, not only with nursing but with dependent animals. I find it a selfish and entitled attitude.

Another elderly family member, on the other hand has semi-isolated himself and is living extremely cautiously because he has close contact with another family member who has underlying health issues.

My devoutly religious grandmother (Greek orthodox) just pronounced she would be happy to die via contaminated holy communion.

I really wish they would stop letting people with a pensioners bus pass on buses until this dies down.

My DM completely understands the risks. She has stocked up and can self-isolate if needs be, but the prospect terrifies her to panic. I feel that at least if the school are open the elderly can go out even just to get air. Sitting alone indoors is going to send them all doolally. These are people that've lived through the war. I think they understand risk, let them call it.

Mine are vulnerable through age (70s) and health (one with a lung condition). They are currently carrying on as usual. I want to tear my hair out - they clearly have their “terrorism” (don’t let them win) hats on, which isn’t quite the same thing....but who am I to comment? I’m only in my thirties so clearly know nothing.

I think that they are being lulled into a false sense of security by the statistics from China which is a country with a great respect for age and wisdom and where they tried to treat everyone who was ill, regardless of age.

I think in the next few weeks the survival rates for older people will drop dramatically as European countries prioritize resources for younger patients.

It's ok to say they went through the war, self isolating is difficult, what will be will be, they have the right to move around but they dont have the right to put others at risk by ignoring all the advice. There may come a time when people are forced to stay at home to delay the spread.

Tried to explain to family member the risk, She said "but I'm not old, and I'm healthy so i'll be fine" She's late 70s and has smoked her whole life. Couldn't get her to understand how bad it can be for some people. I know of another couple who are the same age, (one of them has serious health problems) who've just gone to Spain on holiday.