The very stubborn elderly

[Jocasta2018]

How on earth are we going to get the stubborn elderly to self-isolate?
I know one couple, one has had a massive stroke leading to partial paralysis 15 years ago, various TIAs since then plus a heart attack and smokes like a chimney.
The other, again a heavy smoker, gets every chest infection going round, requiring antibiotics, and has had pneumonia twice in the last 3 years.
Both are 79.
And yet they refuse to change their ways. Out every day, doing the shopping, going to the local towns, having days out.
They have children nearby that can bring them shopping.
They seem to think that if affected, they will get the sort of treatment they received when the major stroke happened 15 years ago. If treatment is going to be rationed, with their problems, I can imagine they'll be last on the list.
I don't know if it's bravado or whether they just don't understand the situation.
Any ideas or do we just let them get on with it?

In Italy they are not even assessing, let alone treating, anyone over 65. This will happen here too. I've just turned 66 and my husband is in his 70's. My husband is determined to risk his life for no good reason. I can't get through to him. We have a daughter who doesn't want to lose her parents.

Social distancing doesn't mean hiding in your flat seeing no-one. FIL walking to the shop with the dog and exchanging a few words with someone the far side of a counter and a couple dog walkers in the woods is going to be very low risk, and him keeping mobile and cheery by doing it is probably more important. If MIL was still alive we'd be terrified for her as she had loads of lung and immune conditions for years.

My mum called and asked 'they keep talking about the elderly with pre-existing conditions. Do they mean me?' Well, you're 82 and were in intensive care last summer...
She's lost two of her closest friends recently and thinks you go when it's your time. And there's many worse deaths than pneumonia - her mother had Alzheimer's, her body lasting ten years longer than her brain.

So my parents have decided to avoid public transport, and only hang out with their small gang of friends and walk around their local woods and small town, and not book any holidays for the foreseeable as 'that virus is going to be all over Heathrow'. Mum added with her usual tact, 'if it's mainly killing people who would die in the next year anyway, it doesn't really matter - you kind of want them to get on with it so there's more capacity in the NHS after'. I know half of NHS resources are used on people in the last six months of their lives - but you never really know when that is.

Mum's granddad died in the 1919 flu, so her dad had to leave school age 11 and work with his older siblings, which is in the back of her mind.

Reading these threads helps me to understand my neighbours. On the one side the husband had a heart transplant nearly 20 years ago. They go out every single day, Costa today. They went on a short break this week in the UK. The wife insists they go out, she will be a merry widow at this rate.

Other friends came back from USA this week both in their 70`s, said they would self isolate because people on the plane were wearing masks, but are now going to drive 50 miles to babysit for their DS and kids overnight. I thought they were batty all of them the grandparents and the parents for allowing this.

A 97 year old I know died yesterday, he was a canny old bugger who will be laughing now at the fact his heart failing beat the coronavirus hands down.

We just have to accept they will crack on as they wish. I have heard on occasion them calling pneumonia the old persons friend. This they prefer to the horrors of dementia.

goldenorbspider At the age is there any point being careful? Live longer but being miserable, no quality of life, not able to do the things you find joy in.

What age? Do you mean everyone over 60? What age do you think "you might as well die"?

I have heard on occasion them calling pneumonia the old persons friend. This they prefer to the horrors of dementia

Many, many of us feel like that.

I think some elderly people will think of their families in this, even if they might take the chance they don't want their families or grandchildren to be bereaved and potentially in awful circumstances where their loved one is suffering greatly and cannot access medical care. Reports from Italy that people are going through a slow drowning and that one doctor has many video calls made on her phone after people begged to use it to say goodbye to relatives on lockdown elsewhere. I have told my elderly relatives, and it was not an easy thing to do, that they have to work on the assumption that if they are critically ill there will very likely be no medical care available.

People are not going to have a last few months out and about enjoying things. They are going to get sick , many will die, the normal social life will not be happening anyway.

In a matter of days unless some massive intervention occurs, we are going to be where Italy is or on an irreversible path there. When people are seeing that in their own country, all other talk will go to the wall.

My parents are 83 and 87 and have self isolated voluntarily. Mum has chronic lung problems and Dad has had cancer scare. Both very active and with it. But easy for them really. House and big garden in the country so still walking the dog round fields. And my dad hasn't left the property for about 2 months anyway so won't feel any different to him. I'm bringing them provisions and leaving them on doorstep. Speaking on phone everyday. I appreciate it must be much harder if you're alone or stuck in a tiny flat. But the alternative- possibly really sick, dying at home with no medical care to be had because all the hospitals are full. Omg surely this is worse than being at home for a while and giving up your coffee mornings? I know which I would choose.

DM is 81 with Alzheimer’s she won’t remember or care even if she is told to self isolate

Well said @TrixyLixy 👏🏼

What age? Do you mean everyone over 60? What age do you think "you might as well die"?

Soon as health starts declining and your obviously on way out sooner rather than later

Think you’ll find it’s the younger generation who are the more stubborn.

I am point of contact/support for two elderly neighbours. Last I heard a few days ago they were both ‘fine and carrying on as normal’ - both into 80s and socially active, out every day and volunteering etc.
Worried they may suddenly ask for me to just pick up a few things eg hand sanitizer/paracetamol/loo roll.

I am in my sixties but still working in an essential government department that is likely to be very busy as the virus progresses. We are an older workforce but if we decide to stay at home what happens to the people depending on us? Obviously anybody with other health issues will be encouraged to self isolate.

The things is are the at risk elderly just going to quietly die in their sleep without any medical attention at all? What happens when they get the most terrifying symptoms of cv? Will they let it pass? No they will want and need help and what happens when it's not there? Yes I agree loneliness and being on their own is not particularly fun but I'm sure being laid out in bed struggling to breath and feeling absolutely horrific and with no chance of any one attending to you would be worse!

This is true Icecream. The doctors surgery is full of old folk with their ailments, my in laws are always going in for one thing or another. There's little chance they're going to contract coronavirus and lie quietly in bed until they die, telling themselves that at least they lived their lives well until the end.

Good thread-I have a dilemma and would love some advice. My family live in London and my wife's elderly and frail parents are pushing to come to our house for lunch. Due to Covid-19 threat to them, and us, I am not comfortable with it, but my wife says it will upset them to cancel...they are a high risk group and so am I. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

My parents both in their 70s ,both with underlying health conditions, live with my brother who has downs syndrome and a whole heap of medical issues.They wont stay in ,I think the impact on my Mums mental health would be profound.I also provide support for them but cant visit them? I never worry about these things but am seriously rattled by this.

Same here with in-laws...MIL diabetic and asthma. Still going for coffees, parties etc. Have stopped telling them not to. It's their lifeline, so i do understand it. We live abroad, BIL lives 300 miles away. If they fall ill, we cannot help.

tomingleby
Doesn't seem like much of a dilemma to me. Cancel, 100%. They can get upset if they like - they'll get over it, better they are upset than they get a disease with a 20% chance of killing them. Once the news articles about overflowing ICUs and mass cremations start in week or so, they won't be holding it against you that you cancelled their dinner plans

Any time I try to talk to my nan about it she just starts singing que sera sera, her plan is to continue on as normal for as long as possible.

Good for her.

There is an 85% chance they will survive the infection

Bollocks. The mortality rate for various age brackets doesn’t discriminate between the healthy and those with underlying conditions/clear vulnerability. As OP clearly knows, the rate amongst those with a history like that couple will be much higher.

It's funny how different threads take different tones. There has been anger and upset on here for a while about seeing the elderly as somehow expendable, and how any risk the gvt take with their health is a thing from irresponsible to economic pruning to genocide.

But on here we have a much more pragmatic tone, treating older people as individuals with their own choices to make.

There was a huge shift away from 'protect the elderly' towards 'that isn't going to work, because the elderly have individual needs' as soon as the self isolation advice was mooted.

I think it's a very positive thing, because if you have annoying parents like mine you no longer need to urge them to take extra precautions. You can tell them they have ta take officially mandated advice. My dear old gran is no longer with us but she did what she was told by officialdom, to the point of giving up biscuits with her tea because a young GP mentioned in passing the fat content.

With the government on our side, we are stronger.