The very stubborn elderly

[Jocasta2018]

How on earth are we going to get the stubborn elderly to self-isolate?
I know one couple, one has had a massive stroke leading to partial paralysis 15 years ago, various TIAs since then plus a heart attack and smokes like a chimney.
The other, again a heavy smoker, gets every chest infection going round, requiring antibiotics, and has had pneumonia twice in the last 3 years.
Both are 79.
And yet they refuse to change their ways. Out every day, doing the shopping, going to the local towns, having days out.
They have children nearby that can bring them shopping.
They seem to think that if affected, they will get the sort of treatment they received when the major stroke happened 15 years ago. If treatment is going to be rationed, with their problems, I can imagine they'll be last on the list.
I don't know if it's bravado or whether they just don't understand the situation.
Any ideas or do we just let them get on with it?

Maybe people posting on this thread have personal experience of the 'stubborn elderly' which is why

So what will happen if these stubborn elderly don't comp with being told to stay home etc? Will they be able to go for walks alone etc?

Radio 4 now. Very illuminating.

I'm in my 50s but my parents regard me as mere child and will never take advice from me 🙄
I wouldn't even bother to try to tell them what to do

You wanna take chances playing musical chairs with hospital beds?
knock yourself out

I'm afraid of compulsory orders to the elderly to stay home.
They're a compliant group as a group, but I could see a lot of rebellion & scoffing.

I don't think the elderly should be "forced" into isolation. I think, instead, that there should be some sort of public info message that spells out the risks they are taking. Something along the lines of the AIDS awareness message voiced by John Hurt when AIDS was viewed as the end of thew world.

*the

My mates parents are going to Vegas tomorrow. That is fucking nuts to me

If they live in the UK or Ireland aren't they subject to the Trump travel ban?

DH said to his parents - in their 70s - that he didn't think it was a good idea for them to see us and DS at the moment. They laughed and explained that the risk is only for old people, and that as they and their entire rambling group (average age probably about 75) were saying in the pub yesterday they'll all be fine because... They genuinely seem to think that going for a long walk once a week makes them physically about 35.

I've just been chatting to my mum on the phone about this. She's 80 with recent respiratory problems and uses an inhaler twice a day. She says she can't possibly just stay in permanently and she'll be careful and only go out when she needs to.

She will not listen. Possibly if her friends are all taking it seriously she might listen to them, because they all know far more about viruses than me, or her son in law (who happens to have a degree in microbiology).

Unfortunately I don't live in the same country as her so can't physically barricade her into the house and leave groceries etc on her doorstep. We have plenty of family and friends who can and will help, but I really doubt she will comply.

So is the general view on this thread that older people should and are entitled to make their decisions based entirely on their own needs/wish to avoid dementia/need to socialise and should not be influenced by our desperate need as a country to flatten the curve to save lives and reduce pressure on the NHS?

The rank hypocrisy! Yesterday people were demanding schools were closed to stop the spread, and yet today older people can't possibly be made to stay inside as it's ageist.

The problem is that older people, if they contract the disease, will take longer to recover and therefore occupy hospital beds and possibly ventilators for longer than other people. So they will be doing the right thing by limiting their exposure. It's not about their personal health, but about impacting on others.

The problem is that older people, if they contract the disease, will take longer to recover and therefore occupy hospital beds and possibly ventilators for longer than other people

Nobody over 70 will get anywhere near a ventilator or, indeed a hospital bed, if the infection rate is as high as most people seem to believe it will be.

AlsoHuman How can you guarantee this? How do you know people over 70 won’t be calling 111 and ambulances or turning up at A and E if sick? The idea that all over 70s who become very sick will just quietly expire without putting any pressure on the NHS is bizarre and I can’t see why anyone believes it for a second.

And even if this bizarre scenario is true, everyone should be social distancing as much as they can to flatten the curve. Obv harder for working people, parents etc.

Well, that is why they want over 70s to stay at home, so they don't get the virus and they don't call out ambulances and get to hospital.

If they do get ill, then I should think they will be assessed and moved to facilities set up in hotels etc, rather than being given priority equipment in a hospital.

It’s been made pretty plain, if not explicit, that old people will only get palliative care. Ambulance calls don’t always result in a journey to A&E and people get sent home from it.

Social distancing is fine, it’s what Scotland’s doing, it’s not recommending self isolation for old people. As always, it’s got it right.

There are about 120000 people in UK living ALONE with DEMENTIA.

I wonder what the plans are to deal with them.

They will not understand or will not remember government advice. They have no planning skills so will not be able to buy in food. They cannot operate the phone or a computer.

I can understand that scarce resources will not be used to keep this demographic alive. But we cannot just leave them to rot.

I reckon govt are banking on oldies falling into line when it starts to feel real, when they know someone who died of it or they see a story on TV they identify with.

If you think about other experiences, where older people have life threatening situations they do seem to recommend no further treatment - for example I have seen this in relative in 70s with difficult to pert situations and underlying health conditions.

They seem to look at the age and underlying conditions and then make a judgement, guess it will be the same with this virus as it is with other general conditions.

operate I meant

Some older people I know also have DNR / advance decisions in place as well, for things like no ventilators, no CPR, no tube feeding and antibiotics.

There are Palliative care teams in hospitals also don;t forget / wards for the elderly etc. There is guidance for things like dealing with breathlessness in palliative care e.g. with opiates.

I sent my nan some shopping but she is saying she will not stay in because she will go mad.

DMIL 91 has DNR stamped across every official piece of medical paper. With vascular dementia, fibromyalgia and advanced osteo-arthritis, she would prefer a quick acute illness and a gentle exit. DH, veteran of stents, a major valve bypass and a pacemaker at 64, still running our company and responsible for eight families' livelihoods feels that we should isolate to shield him from infection. Which we will.