The very stubborn elderly

[Jocasta2018]

How on earth are we going to get the stubborn elderly to self-isolate?
I know one couple, one has had a massive stroke leading to partial paralysis 15 years ago, various TIAs since then plus a heart attack and smokes like a chimney.
The other, again a heavy smoker, gets every chest infection going round, requiring antibiotics, and has had pneumonia twice in the last 3 years.
Both are 79.
And yet they refuse to change their ways. Out every day, doing the shopping, going to the local towns, having days out.
They have children nearby that can bring them shopping.
They seem to think that if affected, they will get the sort of treatment they received when the major stroke happened 15 years ago. If treatment is going to be rationed, with their problems, I can imagine they'll be last on the list.
I don't know if it's bravado or whether they just don't understand the situation.
Any ideas or do we just let them get on with it?

Having the same problem - my parents just won't listen. Exactly like yours they're on the bus every day going to town and so on. Both late 70s & one has asthma. I've tried and tried to convince them to stay at home but no joy.

My 90 year old Grandpa is the same

If they are of sound mind, give them the information and possible consequences so they can make informed choices. Not much else you can do.

Let them get on with it if they have capacity with regards to mental health.

Quality of life is clearly more important to them than quantity which I can understand.

There is an 85% chance they will survive the infection.

I think mine are in denial. They seem to think if they catch it, it won't be serious. I've told them it will be serious and they'll be bottom of the list for hospital intervention but they think I am being melodramatic. So does my sister, which doesn't help because they're getting mixed messages.

Same problem here too! 89yo Grandmother, who gets repeated chest infections, is refusing to take any measures/listen to me. She lives in a very touristy town & although numbers are down there are still plenty of people from all over the world about (to clarify my worry with that is that they’ll have travelled through airports/ on planes, trains etc). She’s out every day. She will not listen to me, or her nephews or sister. She’s highly educated & does understand but is of the opinion ‘it won’t happen to me’.

My 80 year old parents haven't been out for weeks. They have gone the other way.

I am lucky, my parents are being very very careful and understand the situation. I think all you can do is tell them what you know, think etc and let them make their own decisions. I suppose you could also make it clear how you would stand/what you would do if they get it badly and havent taken any precautions. My priority is my children, end of.

I'm experiencing the opposite, two DS in their 20s think it's all an over exaggerated fuss. But DM, DF and Aunt in their 70s and 80s are very anxious, have closed their doors to visitors since Thursday and are not going out for as long as it takes. They have no symptoms, just taking every step possible to avoid it. I guess it depends on different personalities and choices, and as another poster said, the preservation of quality of life some feel is more important than trying to avoid risk.

It's their choice to make, you should respect that really.

My granny (85) just isn't bothered, I've seen her wash her hands after going to the loo & she doesn't use soap

She's one of the lonely elderly BoJo talked about, she'd hate to be home alone for weeks on end. As far as I know she's still going to get her paper daily & will continue to go to her activities for as long as they're on.

I think she thinks if this doesn't get her something else will so she's just cracking on.

It's their choice to make, you should respect that really.

In a sense I do, but whereas in normal circumstances if they got ill my sister and I could support them, it might not be the case with something like this where we all might be ill.

Another who thinks it's their choice, just as it's yours how you protect yourself and your children. Maybe for some elderly with underlying conditions death doesn't seem as scary as it does to their families.

This seems to be common in the elderly, see it on the elderly parents section as well. In general I mean, not just with this virus.

Yes, me as well, with people nearby, one lady just asked me for odd things like dates and sea salt when I asked if she wanted anything at shops, another looked at me oddly when I asked him. both in our building.

Not sure what the answer is really.

My dad goes out to lunch club for the elderly in a church hall, they have been asked to use a spray on their hands before eating he says.

Would be a shame if it was stopped as it is a lifeline to them.

Surely if they have capacity, they should be making their own decisions. I don’t agree with many of my DPs ‘ views or life choices but accept that they have been capable of making decisions on how to live for the last 85 years and the current situation doesn’t change that.

Quality of life is clearly more important to them than quantity which I can understand.

^This

Maybe when things start to escalate after the cobra meeting on Monday, they’ll realise that it’s more serious than they believed.

This is all absolutely fine as long as they accept that if it comes to being very ill, they may not get treatment other than palliative. If however, they get ill and still want to have heroic measures to extend life, potentially limiting healthcare from other younger patients, then that is selfish.

I think for me the problem is that if they became ill as a result of their stubbornness, they would expect their children to drop everything (including their jobs and own children!) to look after them.
I've seen them do this before - refuse all help saying their children will do things for them regardless of what pressures their children might be under already.
They're driving their children around the bend...

I've seen several older people in tesco today coughing and sneezing, no hankies, no care in the world and no thought for anyone else even if it's just a cold. An elderly family member didnt bother washing their hands after using the loo as apparently urine is sterile.

My parents are early 70’s so not elderly as such, my mother has COPD, both are in denial, my mother keeps reminiscing about rationing but won’t even buy an extra pack of teabags in case they can’t get out, my father about bringing back national service, neither are stupid but can’t seem to get an understanding about what might happen during the coming weeks, they read the Daily Fail everyday so it’s got to be on their radar. I’ve brought extras for them and have lots of bits stored in case they should need them. I think that’s all we can do.

my mother keeps reminiscing about rationing

That's interesting. My parents were born during WW2 so grew up with post-war rationing - I wonder if they are seeing this as a long drawn out process (which it probably will be) rather than, as those of us who are too young to have had any first-hand experience of WW2, seeing it as something that will be over quickly. In other words, they are in it for the duration so see drastic lifestyle changes as unsustainable.

My aged parents are in their 80s and both (especially my mum) are in fairly poor health. I'm an only child and 200 miles away, and can't help worrying about them. I feel I shouldn't visit (I'm in London, they are in the midlands) - actually does anyone know if that's the right approach? My instinct is to go up and check on them (we would usually go once a month or so ...)

Anyway they are intelligent, resilient and pragmatic people. They didn't vote for Brexit They do seem to think the illness is akin to flu and I guess it is (albeit flu to which none of us have immunity). And I'm concerned that they are not more concerned.

But. What can you do? I was talking to mum last night and she was saying the great terror when she was small was polio. I wonder if they just have a different perspective? Or maybe more perspective? They don't say this (too polite), but I think they think the current 20s to 50s generations are a bit snowflaky. I want to respect their independence and views, but the worry gets in the way when you love people.

So a bit like @TheMemoryLingers just said more succinctly!