The very stubborn elderly

[Jocasta2018]

How on earth are we going to get the stubborn elderly to self-isolate?
I know one couple, one has had a massive stroke leading to partial paralysis 15 years ago, various TIAs since then plus a heart attack and smokes like a chimney.
The other, again a heavy smoker, gets every chest infection going round, requiring antibiotics, and has had pneumonia twice in the last 3 years.
Both are 79.
And yet they refuse to change their ways. Out every day, doing the shopping, going to the local towns, having days out.
They have children nearby that can bring them shopping.
They seem to think that if affected, they will get the sort of treatment they received when the major stroke happened 15 years ago. If treatment is going to be rationed, with their problems, I can imagine they'll be last on the list.
I don't know if it's bravado or whether they just don't understand the situation.
Any ideas or do we just let them get on with it?

Most of these elderly people will have a more healthy attitude to dying than younger generations. Most people on their 80's would consider they had already had a good innings and are expecting that something or other will take them someone soon. I think it is better that they live life as they want to rather than sir at home for weeks on end feeling terrified. None of us live forever and as an NHS worker we are told that a very high percentage of the over 80's that we meet in hospital will be in their last year of life. That is why we try to get them home as soon as possible as who wants to spend last month's of life stuck in hospital. I am not sure why we are all so obsessed with living forever.

Context here, I’m closer to 70 than 60. I watched my 97 year old mum disappear gradually over a period of years with dementia. I’d rather go with corona virus than dementia any day of the week.

As we get older, we know death’s getting closer and quality of life matters more than quantity. That’s why many of us are just getting on with it. If I got it, I’d refuse to go into hospital too, I’d rather die in my own bed.

I agree with the last poster. Maybe dying doesn't scare them. They'd rather go quickly than have a long lingering death with pain and dementia. They do call pneumonia the 'old man's friend'.

My parents are carrying on, even though both know they will not survive if they get it. They are more terrified of being alone,the thought of prolonged isolation scares them more than dying.

*than

A friend's dad, in his 70s, just flew to Spain thinks he will be fine and be able to pop back again next week.

I thought the whole point of the current ‘plan’ the government has put in place was to protect the elderly. Makes you wonder what’s the point really if the majority have this type of attitude.

I get that staying in can be lonely and no one likes a drastic change to their routine but we are all expected to do it. I don’t want to spend most of my free time at home and I really don’t want to have to self isolate for a cough but I will. I want to reduce my risk of catching it and if I do catch it I don’t want to pass it on to others. I think some (not all) of the older generation really don’t care - all very well and good for them if they don’t mind dying from it but what about everyone else? What about the younger people who have just gone through chemo or have compromised immune systems from medications etc? They don’t care about them either because they need to go buy a newspaper and meet Agnes at the cafe for a cup of tea and a scone every Tuesday.

My mum isn’t elderly- in her 60’s and still has to go to work every day. I know she’s concerned that she’s in a higher risk group but doesn’t have a choice. She has to work. I know she would happily cut back on going out as often if she had the choice. My PIL are older (70’s) and have left the UK for a while to go stay with BIL and his family. They are in a part of the world that has so far not been affected. I know they plan to spend a lot of time indoors and around the property (they have a private pool). I think it’s a pretty sensible choice.

My DM (late 70s, multiple health problems) is completely sticking her head in the sand.

To be honest, though, dying of coronavirus is actually better than a lot of her other future options. I'm more concerned that she will pass it on to others.

I have to add my mum to this. She's in Spain in an area that was locked down yesterday afternoon, told me she was planning to isolate after her new fridge was delivered and installed yesterday evening. Upon being told all bars and restaurants were to shut immediately she told me her and her friend might pop into town this morning just to check the bar they meet every Saturday wasn't open.
I give up!
I actually got very cross with her and asked her why we were bothering at all to protect her when she so obviously is not taking it seriously.
Incidentally she has several underlying conditions and at the age of 75 is vulnerable in every which way.
I've reverted to speaking to her like a child and say she's not being fair on me. I've left it too late to go out there (was planning on going as soon as we shut the schools, so if anything does happen to her it'll be me living with that guilt that we couldn't get to her if something happens.
It's exasperating when we are trying so hard to protect those more susceptible

I'm in my 50's but my perspective is very different from what it would have been ten years ago or even five. The older I get the more I see the cycle of life and think about events like this in more pragmatic terms. Yes I am obeying the guidelines and will self-isolate if necessary but my view is really 'whatever will be will be'.

I can only imagine but I think when you get to your 80's and 90's you've been through so much you most likely think even more so along those lines.

Same here, mine in their 80's with health conditions just will not stay in.

You bloody can't get them out at any other time!!

My uncle, a retired GP at 80, is trying to return to work to ‘help’. Thankfully local trusts and GP practises have refused to take him on (they only want early retirees who are younger than 60) but I have no doubt that if this goes on long enough he’ll get his wish. He comes from the long lived part of my family - probably has another good, active 15-20 years left but he isn’t listening to anyone.

As my Mum said, you can only die once; so she will still go to church and her other activities whilst they are still running, despite my brother giving her a bollocking. He is in semi lock down abroad, so I'm the one who will be dealing with any consequences of Mum's actions.

I can see it from both sides. I mean if they do get ill through their own negligence to look after themselves, then that is a burden on NHS resources, taking up NHS resources potentially leaving others without car and treatment and NHS workers being put at risk to treat them. But on the other hand, if I was say 75 years old and only had another maybe 5 years left on this planet, then I wouldn't want to waste any time isolating myself indoors.

As a person who is possibly a bit (lot) older than some here, I'd put myself among the old folk who are wondering why you think we should distance ourselves? We already know that death is inevitable and while it's lovely that you will miss your wrinkly rellies and friends, as previous posters have commented, many older people would positively choose a short acute illness in preference to a slow lingering decline -- late stage dementia is particularly horrific.

context here, I’m closer to 70 than 60. I watched my 97 year old mum disappear gradually over a period of years with dementia. I’d rather go with corona virus than dementia any day of the week.
As we get older, we know death’s getting closer and quality of life matters more than quantity. That’s why many of us are just getting on with it. If I got it, I’d refuse to go into hospital too, I’d rather die in my own bed

exactly this - totally get it.

DH and I are both 60+, and have three living parents, none closer than 150 miles away.

One of whom is entering the later stages of dementia.

After 15 years of nursing an ill spouse and multiple chronic conditions.

Well that's just lovely that all these old folk are happy to take the chance of catching and passing on covid-19 to other people in their community. How the fuck did they get through two world wars with that selfish attitude?

I've reached a compromise with Dad. Once the first case gets to his big town he will move to online shopping etc. I have tried to tell him it is a tourist town so there might be visitors with Covid 19 wandering around.

Until then he is carrying on with greater hand washing.

My FIL has had chronic leukemia for about 6 years. This came after nursing his wife through Alzheimer's for over 12 years.

A few months ago he had flu, sepsis and pneumonia all at one, nearly lost him. Has to take chemo drug which give him weak legs and play havoc in all sorts of ways.

He has said he will stay in but I wouldn't blame him if he didn't, tbh.

You have to remember, they are not coming at this from the same place as you.

My mother has said if she dies she dies. I think particularly over 80 it's quite a common attitude evening they don't say so.

Our parents were young children during WW2, and in their most formative years, so they were taught to keep calm and carry on stoically. That generation still retain the same attitude.

And in the 1940s, and 1950s it was unusual for people to live past 70 because there were no treatments for many illnesses. Penicillin was invented when my mum was two years old, but it wasn't manufactured in huge quantities until the 1950s and even then it was reserved for serious conditions rather than being prescribed for every sniffle and fed to animals.

My parents were both adults in WW2. My dad fought, my mum nursed. They were tough as old boots - lived to be 97 and 99 - and brought me up to be tough too.

I’m struggling to see why my living a normal life is any threat to anyone else. I go out. I come home. The only threat to immunosuppressed people is being in the same places I go, how would me staying at home help them?