Worried about coronavirus thread 26

[ofwarren]

Here is the new thread

Here is the link to the previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3846851-Worried-about-coronavirus-thread-25

And I hope that if the govt is forced into a change of policy that more lives are not lost.

I still think some countries have went too far to early and may pay the price later, and not just economically.

Neurotrash nothing to change yet just leaked reports (assuming).

We still have to wait for announcement.

Ok cheers.

Btw BoJo, my slt made me feel extremely valued when they told all of us with various at risk issues that they knew about us and were following advice and would keep us updated. I fear coughs at the best of times.

I thought I ws fine, mentally, but my stress-related IBS has ramped up over the last three days. I'm 65 with high BP and cholestrol (meds managed) otherwise present as healthy. I am unemployed and still have to attend the jobcentre later this week unless policies change. I really think unemployed over 60s should now be having telephone interviews rather than having to go into jobcentres, cutting down on having to be out and about, using public transport and traipsing through crowded cities. We are, after all, in the 3.6 death rate group.

I think the same re posts who complain no matter what the govt do

There are intermediate steps between "total local down" and "less than nothing".

For example, in the past weeks, there could have been a series of graded messages like "FGS it's not fluuuuuuu" or "we'll suspend fines for school non-attendance" or "everybody who can WFH should be allowed to WFH" or "social distancing is good" or "mass gatherings are not a great idea, folks" and "we're keeping a really up-to-date list of risky countries instead of lagging weeks behind the actual data so that 1000s of Madrid fans can come over." You know, that much-vaunted Nudge Theory.

Instead, we had "wash your hands" and "carry on completely as normal, in fact, gather ye all in giant crowds at Crufts and Cheltenham and football" and "yeah, whatevs, it's here now so we're not going to bother collecting data anymore despite claiming we're doing Science."

So there's my entirely un-nuanced and therefore obviously politically-motivated complaint about that poor ickle government.

On the plus side...

Hopefully they'll die off Twenty.

Talking to my mum about why only over 70s have been told to isolate. Surely it would be better to isolate everyone who’d be triaged out of receiving treatment? Everyone who’s over 60 as that was the cut off for treatment in Milan and Rome. Everyone who’s immunosuppressed or has various different illnesses, regardless of their age. Basically anyone who wouldn’t get medical care if the NHS was overwhelmed.

Mum said yes, but many of those people work and we can’t afford them to stay at home. Over 70s mostly don’t work so we can afford to tell them to stay at home. They’re no great loss to the economy and it makes it look like we’re doing something. Imo there are people who are at risk and who wouldn’t receive treatment if infected but they won’t be told to take additional measures because while it might be good for the individual it would be bad for the economy.

There’s also the issue of putting personal responsibility onto the individual. The government can’t make them stay at home, but when they get sick and are refused treatment it’ll be their own fault. People need to realise that if their elderly relatives defy these measures they’re essentially on their own.

I disagree two things they have brought in established behaviour change. Personal responsibility.

Cancelling mass events and shutting things is a false sense of security.

People act randomly and shoot off to the country taking it with them. They visit their gps giving it to them. All sub optimal behaviour.

To Poisoning

So my elderly mum has woken up with a dry cough this morning. She has numerous health issues and is thankfully staying home from church this morning. She is putting it down to a B12 injection she had this week (she has them every 3 months) and has apparently noticed a link of getting a cough after them. I am keeping everything crossed she is right.

@Exochord
I’ve been telling my 83 year old mum to stay at home everyday for 4 days! She’s still taking the bus to the market EVERYDAY to buy her shopping!! She has just recovered from clots on her lungs and has an existing lung condition. I’m losing patience with her. She says she’s had a good “innings” and that’s she’s not stopping what she’s doing, she thinks I’m over reacting... she’s watching TV and following the uk Gov advice...her stubbornness will literally be the death of her

She knows she has 5 children that will drop her shopping off!! I’m fuming 😤

I think they've stopped testing people in the community for the simple reason that they didn't have enough labs to cope with demand (turnaround had gone up to 4-5 days) and needed to prioritize hospital patients. No other country in the world has just given up on testing, as far as I can gather. I was reading an article about one of the countries that had brought it under control and they had drive though facilities with results within an hour for everyone. This makes me very worried.

Teachers should keep asking unions and local authorities the difficult questions BTW.

The government isn't being held accountable via other means.

It's about getting answers to questions and filling in the details where their are gaps in sloppy policy making rather than trying to force a shut down.

It's not acceptable to risk older staff or staff or with health issues or leave parents in a position where they may face sanction particularly if they or the child has health needs.

I know one parent in my sons class has pulled her children already. Her attitude is the government can take her to court. The government isn't going to look too clever in court having failed to provide answers about how their policy affect child or parents with health issues. The headlines won't favour them. I've more or less told other parents in the same chat that there isn't a lot the government can do to enforce things under the circumstances. It's a total farce.

I'm still unsure what I'm going to do over the next week or so. I've still got a cough (the one from November) and DS has one from pre Feb half term. He went into school on Friday as its not a new cough and he had it before there has been any indication of community spread in UK and before things started to escalate in Italy. I volunteer in the school too so I'm not sure how that going to go this week. I'm of the mindset that I'm no essential anyway so will probably give it a miss.

Today I shall be panic buying the final bits of gardening stuff I need. My lawn looks awful.

Joining this thread as also worried about elderly parents, not to mention job losses, finances etc.

To those worried about children at school and immunosuppressed family members... sometimes in an emergency you just have to lie. You couldn't get a sick note from the doctor right now if you wanted one so I think you'll escape prosecution / fines at least.

I'm now going to try to avoid Coronavirus and news for a few hours as I'm feeling pretty anxious.

Personal responsibility

You mean, shucking the responsibility of the state to its people, by saying "if you didn't do it right and you catch it, it's your fault."

All sub optimal behaviour.

Humans behave suboptimally. No Shit Sherlock. That's not a reason to do less than nothing and in fact actually tell people to carry on completely as normal. Surely the point of Nudging is knowing that not everybody will do things perfectly, but that some people will do things, however imperfectly, that can help the situation.

poisoning just be a responsible person and do the hard stuff. Make changes like everyone else and stop moaning on.

Not always. Sometimes people do the right thing. I grew up near Eyam, Derbyshire. A historical example of how people can sometimes behave responsibly of their own volition. And it worked.

Thinking about it, I wonder if that's why I'm predisposed to favour lock down methods over the doing nothing approach. I was fascinated by the story of Eyam as a child. So much so that I got married there...

Maybe Boris should look it up!

just be a responsible person and do the hard stuff. Make changes like everyone else and stop moaning on.

I'll post what I like, thanks. Y'know, that Tory god of Personal Responsibility and all.

Based on the response to the 70+ suggested lockdown do we really think any gov enforced full lockdown would work at this stage. I am horrified at the thought of DM (75yo with heart condition) being stuck in her home for 4 months. My first thought was she won't do it! But if that's what it takes?

The Italian Gov tried to lock down regions and people just moved out of region or ignored it. I know people who were still talking about going to Italy on holiday up to last week.

Riots in Paris by people that don't want to lock down - not only challenging their gov direction who are trying to protect their population in the way the think is best but also diverting emergency device support from those that really need it at that very moment.

DD was quite excited about schools having to close until I explained this could mean her having to stay in the house for days or weeks on end - it would not be an extended holiday, I practically heard the penny clang as it dropped.

I think the Gov is dammed if they do or dammed if they don't.

We all want action as long as it doesn't impact on us personally. I really hope that the moment will come that we realise this is bigger than any one of us rather than pointing fingers and demanding "more".

Look after those that need help, support your community be it on a national scale or on your street.

Has anyone know why they have said 4 months?

I refuse to lie. Let them take me to court. Let them justify the stupid idea that they have to put me at risk every single day because “children don’t get ill”. I’m autistic - the evidence I’d provide them with would be reams and reams

Plus I couldn’t anyway - DS already told his teacher he’d probably be off from Monday

Morning.

I'm stepping back for a while today
The hashtag #HighRiskCovid19 has just tipped me over the edge and I need a little break.

I'll probably still post the odd important bit of news, but I just need a mental health break.

Can someone else set up the next thread today please ❤️

So no new cases reported in Devon, the local news ( for local people) says.
Isn't that because they're not testing anymore.
Really makes me angry, because it feels sinister that our government want to hide the numbers. Adds to that sense of us and them.