Spain: this is what happens when you close the schools

[Hopeisnotastrategy]

murciatoday.com/murcian_government_decrees_enforced_quarantine_of_a_guilas_san_pedro_san_javier_los_alca_zares_cartagena_la_unia_n_and_mazarra_n_1353560-a.html?fbclid=IwAR0iqy14FgcHMXspstqQKdALOm-xMVg5S9qkgIV4P8FC55gMNaPf750XlJA

Families leaving Madrid and heading for the coast are spreading the virus throughout the country. A week ago the province of Murcia was only getting its first case of coronavirus.

While we are all banging on about not closing schools YET (it will happen when the time for the next measure is right) we are all diverting from the real thing that will slow this thing down. That is SELF ISOLATE IF YOU HAVE EITHER A COUGH OR A FEVER OF 37.8 DEGREES. Oh and wash your hands. So whilst closing schools is an easier thing for us to comprehend - it is more ‘obvious’ - we have completely missed that doing the above in capitals has a MUCH GREATER EFFECT. It’s a massive thing we have been asked to do. Much much bigger than closing schools (again that will come later). So please can all these armchair scientists get with the programme and focus on doing the next step which is in capitals above - which will have a huge impact on slowing this down. Much bigger at the moment than closing the bloody schools. That will make a bigger headline and may make everybody feel more secure but it won’t have the effect SELF ISOLATING IF YOU HAVE A COUGH OR A FEVER does.

Bool yep.

We need people to act differently not just wait for things to be cancelled and closed.

@MarshaBradyo yes maybe people like the idea of the government ordering systemic shutdowns. What they have asked is for us all to take individual responsibility and people clearly don’t like that despite it having a HUMUNGOUS effect. So self isolate please for 7 days peeps if you have a cold or a fever. Take personal responsibility and we may be able to slow this down for our doctors and nurses. I have some hope - I have been travelling to and from work for the last few weeks and it has never been so quiet. Nobody dares cough. Maybe this is happening already. I hope so.

I have been going in waves with this but first they were clear in what we personally had to change, then they stepped up fear based response so we’d do the harder thing.

If you expect people to do the right thing you can see in Italy with people fleeing that they won’t.

It’s the long haul and it goes past term dates into Easter holidays, every one staying inside for school now people that is the mindset will need to keep it up through Easter when schools really do close.

And yep agree Bool what they are asking is hard. And we have to do it off our own bat. Just closing things might seem more effective but we all have to do things differently.

Same in switzerland - i got loads of facebook status updates from people going to the countryside...

Yes I see some city Germans going to the countryside now it’s all shut

It is strange that people go on about the gov not doing anything. Do they not realise how massive asking everyone with a fever or cough to self isolate is? Come Monday huge numbers of people will not be at work.

Helpful,

How many people go to work with a fever above 37.8 degrees. I am guessing a tiny minority. And they are talking a continuous cough, not a slight one.

I think it is a tiny change.

What BOOL said.

Northern Germany, where numbers are not dissimilar to UK, was giving the same advice as UK until yesterday. Then state governments made an abrupt u turn and extended the spring holiday for schools, and closed kindergartens and universities.

Result: mass exodus to relatives in the country, Majorca, UK - and a whole series of legal challenges.

These policies do not work unless they are part of a raft of measures.
Anyone who wants to self isolate is perfectly at liberty to do so. Imposing half baked rules at the wrong time will get us nowhere and will further undermine confidence in governments.

Where do you get the information from that there is massive exodus in Germany @tegucigalpa13? Link?

I think it is a tiny change

That’s interesting. Our chief scientist said it will make a 25% difference. I am more inclined to believe him. Why do we all think we know better?

@emkana

No link. Figures difficult to collect obviously.

BUT

I was part of it yesterday.

Frankfurt airport teeming with Americans who had returned by road and rail from Northern Italy. Destined for UK and Ireland. Boasting that the US authorities could not track their travel patterns if they had not travelled by air from zones at risk.

Neighbours off to Majorca, relatives in the country, relatives in the North.

Family from Hamburg sending children to grandparents in UK.

Cyprus and Denmark have closed borders to keep them out.

In France schools are not technically closed. A teacher will be present at every school on every day and available to take in children who cannot be looked after at home. There will be no triaging at the school gates, all the children who turn up will be taken in. Having said that, the vast majority of parents are arranging to keep children at home. The government is also offering sick pay to one adult per household with children under 16yo which should help a bit financially (not sure if this applies to the self-employed).

@tegucigalpa13
That is insane! Do people not understand that the purpose of closing schools is to facilitate social distancing measures?

I’d say that’s the risk when you just close stuff without hitting hard with simple messages first.

Agree Marsha.

If all the school staff get killed off as they have maximum exposure, then the schools will shut a way.

I am from Dublin and while others my put it better and more succinctly that me my view of why the schools closure went so well was because we all knew a couple days in advance that there would probably a call to close schools, it was a matter of when not if. Ireland is small so once one person knows something it spreads like wildfire. Schools spent a few days organising work packs or online learning, we all follow the same curriculum so it took some of the second guessing what to send home. More than that because we are a small nation it seems to be people keeping other people in check. Social media and parents whattsapp groups are full of people telling their peers to stay home, to keep their kids home and teenagers especially. Groups have been set up in communities to help the vulnerable at home in isolation. There are cirulating texts from Respitory doctors and medical professionals highlighting the need to comply with quartanine. While every area is not the same it is down to peer pressure to follow guidelines. Our estate is eerily quiet, a neighbour might work in their garden or bring their kids for a walk but social distance is kept and everyone is checking on each other. We are lucky to have a park in our estate with a large green, it was full yesterday of people getting fresh air but again keeping to themselves but everyone is friendly.

There is a community consensus that those who can stay home, do , so it is safer for those front line staff who need to work. There has been no one going on holidays that I can see, everyone cancelled. Large public attractions like Dublin Zoo are closed which has led to other smaller attractions following suit. Playcentres tried to stay open for under 100 people but they are under pressure from their customers to close. The majority of Irish citizens agreed that quarantine should be in place so once it was announced I think it was a relief that something was being done. It wont be perfect, people will lose jobs or be on reduced wages, it will be tough mentally trying to work from home and home school children but people are willing to sacrifice and sure if they are not they will be shamed into it by their peers or families.

Its not total isolation just yet, we can travel to large open spaces, talk to our neighbours and friends. There is talk that the army will be called on next week and everything but supermarkets and pharmacies stay open, so next week will throw up its own problems. Right now the worst is trying to get food from the shelves in stores and keeping teenagers from gathering together.

@liberoncolours I know what you mean. It is different, for sure, if you are rurally based - and equally, if very city centre based (and UK has bigger cities than Ireland obviously) so getting to open spaces easily could be harder.

But @mathanxiety has it - there are still ways to manage the isolation effectively & safely. Today in Ireland, we're advised that children playing outside should do so only in small groups of 3 or 4, and keep appropriate distance. This is doable.

You say 'many months'. It will be several more months until Covid tapers, for sure. What the Irish government is doing is taking a position on where we are now, making a clear statement for a defined period so that people can, to a degree, easily follow it.

We are all aware that it's not going to be sorted in 2 weeks and that further restrictions will be needed. In my workplace, we are working on plans but also having to go day to day.

But we don't have to deal with that for 2 weeks, essentially. That allows people to get on with life in some structured way as much as possible, helping to avoid chaos and panic.

In 2 weeks the curve is hoped to have been flattened. But there will be many more cases, and though Ireland to date has only had 1 death, there will be more, and the authorities have been very clear on that.

That kind of leadership is a way of creating safety and provides reassurance too.

Frankfurt airport teeming with Americans who had returned by road and rail from Northern Italy. Destined for UK and Ireland. Boasting that the US authorities could not track their travel patterns if they had not travelled by air from zones at risk.

I thought they were making exceptions for American citizens just trying to get home, anyway.

Apoloogies my my awful spelling, dylexic and tired

I agree Vandree

I think the 'smallness' of Ireland is really in our favour at the moment. Lots of informal communication & a strong sense of public spirit is encouraging us to do the right thing.

I'd also say that businesses are really impressive at the moment. I'd an appointment that I had decided not to attend, just as I was slightly under the weather & felt it was better to do so. Before I could ring them to cancel, they called me, checking how I was, any health issues / symptoms & would I like to cancel. Just thought it was very well handled.

That’s not what will happen in Scotland - maybe it what will happen in parts of south England. It’s only March so the coast is still freezing. We all know it will rain, be windy and cold for at least another 2 solid months. Nice weather, enough to enjoy the beach anyway won’t happen until late may/ early June (even then you still risk it being non stop rain). If people do head to the coast to stay in holiday homes, caravans etc. then they will be indoors most of the time due to the weather.

Don’t you think the schools have closed a tad too early in Ireland though. You are still a long way off the peak.