Worried about coronavirus thread 24

[ofwarren]

Sorry everyone, I was watching that shambles of a press conference

Shouldn’t we be testing to look for clusters. Then we can apply more stringent (maybe lock-down) policies to certain areas?

I know there are cases everywhere but surely there are clusters? For example Spain have taken more measures in Madrid than other areas. Then you try and reduce the spread form the cluster area.

Also, I think the population needs to know the true numbers so they can change their behaviour accordingly. Otherwise you’ll
still have people claiming there’s only 600 cases out of millions. This is not the case. Surely more information the better?

Thanks @Horehound , we're trying our best to stay safe and well here.

I think in general the medical/epidemiological/public health experts around the world DO agree that there IS a best course of action I.e some level of lockdown. Only BJ and people that work for him are saying otherwise

That is a lie!

We will have more extreme measure introduced. The key word from yesterday was YET.

Most of this is just people's fears are anxieties and not much is actual truth or fact

I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I want the factual evidence that once you have had it, that it then makes you immune.

policies should always be based on fact based evidence. Not a gamble of lives on it might work it might not........

@Horehound my fears and anxieties are very real and founded on facts, yes at times I do feel hysterical, this morning I've shed a few tears which is not like me at all. I'm frightened for my life.

Alistair Darling blasts lack of international cooperation on tackling coronavirus t.co/fNdCIsKqeQ
Daily mail

I was also wondering why the heads of countries don’t all work together (via Skype) so there is a joint world effort. Not everyone doing different things.

@Bearbehind

I posted this last night but you must of missed it or chose not to reply.

The reason it is beneficial to test people who have "mild cases" instead of making them just self isolate. Is because, if it IS just a cold they can get back to work, and that helps the economy as there is less people off at once. More emergency service workers available to help, more people getting paid and spending and helping the economy. People who can go help their elderly relatives by going shopping for them so they can stay in and reduce the most vulnerable catching it. My work has had emails from other businesses who need us to advise if someone is self isolating due to having or being suspected of having it. So they can stop any work with us for a certain period to protect THEIR staff. Can you not see how much of a financial disaster that could be for business and economically when the person could potentially not have it at all and have been tested negative? We also have insurnace at work that will pay out to cover employees pay IF they test positive. That alone will stop certain businesses going out of business.

There is lots of reasons why not just everyone self isolating for 7 days, but actually being tested, is beneficial. To reduce the spread and for the economy.

But any PM would be totally irresponsible...

Big Choc did you give your head a shake after you wrote these words? Surely we have the most irresponsible and self referential PM next to the POTUS. I can't get the image of Dom in a white lab coat rubbing his hands with glee at such an early opportunity to put his thoughts on "the frontiers of the science of prediction" into action.

The ambulance was called to the house because she was having an epileptic fit and not because of any concerns about Coronavirus. The crew were unable to save her. After her death the family said she'd had flu for about a week and wondered about Coronavirus. Other HCPs were sent to test her, and she resulted positive.

Was there anything written that suggested the Coronavirus could have triggered the seizure?

I know there is lots of talk about co-morbidities and the focus being on diabetes, respiratory conditions and cardiac conditions, but what about other chronic health problems?

Are these people considered more at risk too?

#Coronavirus: How concerned should those with pre-existing conditions be?

GP Gemma Newman says "anybody" is susceptible to the virus and so therefore we all need to get "complacent" and act with "caution."

#AskSkyNews #Breakfast

Live #COVID19 updates 👉 t.co/JWzsTc1RkN t.co/iT7CWX633t

also testing mild cases will give more accurate information about the natural course of the infection.

I imagine that it is rationing situation though - we don't have the resources to divert into diagnosing well (ish) people. And that's fair enough personnel, lab time & physical resources need to be diverted for hospital use & you do not want likely infected people turning up at hospitals to prove they have it.

scbchl how do you propose they get tested?

Go to a&e, go to their doctors?

All the time spreading germs if they are infected

Plus there’s the fact that they might not test positive even if they are carrying it, due to the stage they are at

There’s no ideal solution here

Every option has positives and negatives

Australian Home Minister Peter Dutton tests positive for Coronavirus. Whole cabinet will have to be quarantined now.

In January, Dutton called for Chinese-Australians returning from Wuhan to be quarantined in Christmas Island in case they spread coronavirus

Because the testing criteria has changed I won't even get a heads up when Covid-19 is rampant in my area
The value of this should not be under estimated. People need a healthy amount of fear to make them stay at home. Seeing the government figures and being told it’s rampant in their area will make them scared enough to isolate and reduce transmission. Without the figures it’s essentially an invisible disease - you see it in the news but then you go outside and life seems to be continuing as normal - and it becomes just more television, a disaster movie that isn’t really affecting you.

Does anyone feel a bit like a human guinea pig and we are all just waiting to see if the governments plan works or we are all just fucked with regards to our elderly and infirm friends or relatives?

Its a very odd time to be living at the moment.

This sounds like a made up story but its true. I was on a plane yesterday and got chatting to the guy next to me. His brother in law is a consultant heart & lung specialist in Milan and he sent his wife (guy on plane's sister) and son to live in the UK a month ago.

So...he seemed to deem it serious enough to socially distance his family from it in another country, way before it appeared so serious to us.

Squid I agree with everything you've said bar solely blaming the tories for hospitals.
In 2007 my two local hospitals were in utter crisis after a decade of Blair. Locals were terrified of ending up in either of them, maternity wards were life threatening places and that was if you were lucky enough to get in, because many women in labour were being turned away.

I had a fear of birth and the headlines at that time were dominated by shocking lack of mw and maternity care.
Everyone locally had some horror story about the lack of care... Across the hospital.

Those hospitals under the tories have had massive cash injections, one has had large new maternity wing, the other has had huge new a and e built.

The tories may have gone on to under fund the hospitals after inheriting the economy after a Labour gov and massive credit crash but I don't buy into the idea that hospitals are shit solely due to the tories because in 2007 I was fucking terrified of ending up in a hospital, and terrified of not getting into one whilst in labour. And now they are OK.

The value of this should not be under estimated. People need a healthy amount of fear to make them stay at home. Seeing the government figures and being told it’s rampant in their area will make them scared enough to isolate and reduce transmission.

Alternatively, fear of the unknown will keep people thinking twice about what they do

Ive just been watching the republic of Ireland opposition gov spokesperson on health on sky news.
It highlights the difficulties there may be due to vastly different policies in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
How the heck is that going to work.
Will this cause R.O.I strategy to fail.
If it turns out we have got this spectacularly wrong are we going to see a refugee situation from the otherside?
This really is mind boggling.
I am a history student and this is fascinating to unpick from that perspective. I just wish it wasn't so terrifying.

How do you propose they get tested

The same way South Korea does it, and the way our government were about to do until BoJo's announcement yesterday. By setting up new community coronavirus swab services, staffed by trained nurses in full PPE. Drive through or in-home testing.
My trust (not this one) was asking for volunteers to be seconded to a new coronavirus community swab service less than 24 hours ago, before Boris kiboshed the whole thing and said we aren't going to bother testing anybody outside of hospital any more

clch.nhs.uk/about-us/news/update-drive-through-swabbing-hubs-covid-19

In all this 'behavioural' science, I don't have think anyone realises just how much confusion there is about virus's.

Eg student has a dry cough, they say 'I don't have the virus don't worry'

People say its a load of nonsense, no one will get it as bad as flu.
People say they use hand gel but they have no idea that handgel 57.7 %ethanol won't do anything.

People don't understand the incubation period of a virus.

Does behaviour science actually factor in the millions who try and do the right thing but can't assimilate information.
And those that do understand but will work as long as they can.
Or those that do not understand and do not care?

Alternatively, fear of the unknown will keep people thinking twice about what they do
People don’t know what to do. They don’t know where the virus is because community testing has been stopped. They don’t know what to do if they feel unwell because they’ve been told to stay at home and not call 111. They don’t have clear guidelines regarding what level of social contact is acceptable. In the absence of a visible government response they will just carry on as normal.

Alternatively, fear of the unknown will keep people thinking twice about what they do

not really. Have you seen the amount of people going about there business, plus heading to Cheltenham because the government has said carry on.

lots of people don't think about these things unless there is a neon sign right in front of them.

the people who will be under the influence of 'the unknown' are the people already on the ball the rest will not change until they see it absolutely effect them or they are told to stop.

DD2's office has run out of handwash. The boss has suggested they refill the bottles with shampoo. I am not confident that shampoo has much efficacy against coronavirus.