Clashing with husband over coronavirus

[User24689]

Hi all. My DH is driving me nuts and I need a sounding board. He has read everything there is to read about coronavirus. We have cupboards stocked with enough food for 2 months. He has said he doesn't want to go to his nieces first birthday in 2 weeks as his parents are going and they have just returned from Rome. He's massively anxious about it all.

Whats annoying me now is he doesn't think I should be taking my youngest to playgroups etc and need to stay home with him. I'm a SAHM and groups are the only time I catch up with friends, basically. He's talking about working from home and we have just had a huge argument because he wants me to take our reception age child out of school. She's below compulsory school age so be thinks it's fine. I have explainee she will lose her school place if we just stop sending her and he keeps banging on about how in no time at all the school will be closed anyway. I really really don't want to take her out, she loves it and if I can't even take them anywhere (apparently) out of the home wtf am I meant to do with them both for the next however long he deems it necessary!
When I argue with this, he asks me what has to happen for me to decide it's time not to send her. When I said it's when the school closes he just scoffs at me as by then apparently it will be too late.
Is this normal behaviour?!?! Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with him/ calm him down?

@bibibirdie

It's based on if a certain percentage amount died of the population

That is true of any stat about any illness at all. That's just saying what a statistic is as a concept.

As you've shared a number that will scare a lot of people it is only fair to cite your sources / explain the maths.

So the number you claimed (670,000) is based on what percentage of the population being infected? And what percentage of those infected dying?

If you don't say where these figures come from then you are unnecessarily going to scare people who are worried and I hope that isn't something you'd want to do.

You've said some really nasty things on this thread that are mean spirited. I think it's fair for people to mention that if you're saying that other people have been nasty to / about you.

Again, as I said previously, despite telling people to #BeKind today (on this thread alone) you have been:

• Calling some of the infected people morons

• Saying OP shouldn't have had kids if she doesn't want to stay at home for a couple of weeks solid. A particularly nasty thing for you to say.

• Implying people who don't or can't self isolate deserve to get coronavirus

Total deaths worldwide so far are 3220. To suggest hundreds of thousands of deaths in the UK is, I would think, towards the very, very extreme end of what might happen.

The Spanish flu epidemic of 1918/19 infected an estimated 1/3 of the world's population. Bear in mind that the population was moving around greatly at the end of the war. That resulted in an estimated 50 mill. deaths world-wide with around 250,000 in Britain. Even allowing for the fact that Britain had a smaller population then, that figure gives you an idea of what a deadly viral outbreak does. It's dreadful, yes, but there's no need to exaggerate.

I think your husband is being a bit premature to act now but he's right in thinking that the time is likely coming when you will need to have a plan for what it is you want to do. The Government have said it is likely the virus will be pandemic. When they no longer have the resources to contact trace, or when the virus is being transmitted within communities, they will start to delay the full onset as best they can. This includes social distancing. The WHO and Government will do their best to contain it for as long as they can, but they are not expecting to be able to contain it indefinitely. The last I heard was that they were expecting the infections to peak around May time. You don't want to be infected at that time because the NHS will be totally overwhelmed. The worst case scenario is that 80% of the population will be infected, more likely is 60%. 20% of those will be more serious. The NHS is going to seriously struggle. This is all information that has been put out by the government. When the infection becomes uncontainable and community transmissions pick up speed, at that point I personally will take my child out of school and see if we can wait it out at home. Like lots of other people who are able to. Obviously it's not an option for everyone. The crisis is not necessarily the severity of the virus - it's the severity of everyone being infected at the same time. The delay being talked about by the Government is to flatten out the peak so that our services can cope.

Obviously if we can delay the onset and flatten out the peak of infections by social distancing measures we would hopefully have a lower death rate as people will receive better care in the NHS than they would if we had 60% of the population all getting the virus at the same time.

funny as they removed far more nasty comments on that thread that others, egged on by you, wrote to me than I wrote.

I egged no one on. I spoke directly to you. When you claimed the TA had been in school knowing she was a risk up until thursday because (and I quote) 'parents and kids at the school had said so' you were told it wasnt true.

The person in question didnt even go to risk area.

I am not responsible for anything MN removed, written by others.

And also the deletion message was that the Op has said the thread was causing issues and distress in real life. I pointed out you werent the OP and questioned how ot was causing problems in the ops real life. They then changed it when I poi minted out you werent the OP

Again, they had no issue with what I said.

Your posts were scaremongering. You were speading lies and presenting them as fact

actually said on there I was appealing to MN to remove the thread as it had descended into a bun fight that clearly wasn't in the spirit and that I was sick of justifying myself so telling the OP what the general consensus was from parents actually directly effected by the teacher

It wasnt the general consensus. It was gossip from a few. The thread was removed because you were claiming bullying and it had gone off the subject. Because you couldnt admit that your information was false.

Even my DCs head is livid and said her staff would be sacked for ignoring emails of that nature or excusing it as "an accident that she didn't see it in time".

He has no right to be. She followed advice given at the time based on where she went.

@vanhi total deaths worldwide so far are 3220. To suggest hundreds of thousands of deaths in the UK is, I would think, towards the very, very extreme end of what might happen

China managed to contain the first wave by locking down cities. We are not intending to do that here. The Government has said that the infection rate won't go above 80% of the UK population. Even if it peaked at 5% of the population, with the current mortality rate given by the WHO, the number of deaths would still be above 500,000.

Sorry maths above is terrible - it would be just over 100,000 deaths

To answer a pp, he is stressed with work yes. I have wondered if he has latched onto this as an outlet for some other anxiety. He isn't usually an anxious or controlling person.

This might be behind his anxiety then, OP. Getting v. worried about Coronavirus could be an outlet for his stress, i.e. fixating on something.

I try to put this in perspective by thinking about what other generations have had to go through - bombing raids, the threat of nuclear war, Bubonic plague! We're in a much better position than they were health-wise, we'll get through it. Not to say there aren't and won't be more fatalities, but that's life. I'm not scared of dying, tbh!

The WHO mortality rate takes into account areas where there is much more limited medical help available than there is in European countries.

I feel sorry for your h because he is suffering with anxiety over this issue. Justified or not, who can say and who can see into the future?

His parents probably should stay away from the party and should be careful not to go out too much. Many of the UK's recent cases have been contracted in Italy. So he isn't unreasonable not to want to go to the party.

Re school, that's more difficult. There are people who've taken their kids out of school, I know of one. It isn't necessary yet IMO, but still I feel sorry for him as it's clearly tearing him up.

But we can't ALL make substantial changes in reality can we? How will the country function? Those that make substantial changes (ie isolating themselves) are relying on lots of other people not doing so

I agree with this. Your dh thinks that you should be self isolating, is he planning to do this with you? How does he propose he earns any money to pay for you all? Surely he can’t self isolate for the next few months, so he is quite willing to go out in the scary world and bring back the virus with him. Which makes you self isolating pointless.

Or is He proposing you live of savings for the near future and then gets a new job when this has finished? In which case, is he expecting everyone else to also self isolate? How is proposing to buy food? What if one of you needs to see a doctor (not every illness is transmitted through people), if the dc grow, how does he propose to buy them new clothes. How is he going to stop them being bored? Who is keeping the electricity/gas/water/internet etc working while we are all self isolating?

It’s ridiculous. The media have a lot to answer for the way they are reporting this.

(Op, I also appreciate you agree with me, so can’t answer my questions, but you are right to be annoyed with him. Self isolating when you have no need to is a ridiculous idea!)

We've had a few reports and will remove any personal attacks. In the meantime, please can we appeal for some peace and love.

Just want to thank everyone for the interesting discussion on this thread. Clearly, my DH isn't alone.

To clarify, he isn't usually an anxious person. He is specifically wound up about this issue. I am concerned for his mental health and at no point have I mocked mental health issues which one of the pps mentioned.

In fact, I suffer myself with my mental health and have been taking Sertraline for several months. It's important to me to protect my own mental health too which is really why I posted as discussing it with DH was really affecting my mindset. I know that withdrawing from society would be really hard for me.

Thanks for some of the brilliant tips on how to discuss it with him. A few pps have been particularly helpful. To the pp that mentioned about risk assessment and how I am balancing it differently I really thought that was well articulated and will discuss that with him later.

Someone asked about his job. He works from home a lot but for the next week or so he has an event on that requires him to be in the office a lot so no, he won't be isolating himself til that has finished as he can't get out of it. I think I will suggest revisiting the situation with school once that is finished when we will have a better picture of the speed of the spread. There's no point in isolatibg the kids if he could bring the virus home from work anyway, I expect.

Finally @bibibirdie I just want to say that your posts were really inflammatory and unfair. To suggest I shouldn't have had children and that my husband would be appalled to read what I have written - I love and respect my DH which is why I want to resolve this issue! There's nothing on here I've said that I haven't basically said to him already!

Clearly your kids school has assessed things differently to my kids school which is carrying on completely as normal. Pulling her out indefinitely risks losing her school place and that of her siblings as we have moved out of catchment since she started so it's a big decision.

You really haven't been very nice at all, to me and others.

Thanks everyone else who has been helpful or respectfully taught me a thing or two! 😁

Good luck, OP. As someone who's also suffered with anxiety, I know how overwhelming it can be so I emphathise with you both. I hope you manage to talk it through and make him feel better about it. you sound like a lovely person.

Sending you good wishes OP, in haste but just wanted to say that

How about shutting the border

Oh FFS! Close the borders and prevent all of our medical and food supplies from even getting into the country!! What a fucking ridiculous brilliant idea. Kill many birds with one stone there, including potentially a number of us who rely on that supply route to get our medication into the country in the first place.

I have heard it all now.

OP, just saw your update.

Wishing you the best. You sound as though you will handle this well. Better than I probably would if my DH wound me up like that (something he thankfully isn't often prone to doing).

OP, did you miss when MNHQ mentioned no personal attacks? It's right above your personal attack on me.
You have not said one word to anyone calling your husband derogatory terms, such as "I'd his corset too tight" and saying he should be sectioned. I wouldn't care how much I disagreed with my DP, and I did this weekend, I would not stand by and allow randoms on the internet to be rude about him. In fact, my reporting derogatory terms used to mock the mental health of your DH and myself has done more to stick up for him than you.
I understand you have been on meds yourself, he has clearly stood by you. I just find it abhorrent when people allow others to talk out of turn about people who don't have the right of reply.
Bearing in mind the sharp increase of cases, plus the fact PHE will no longer be giving us info regards areas hit, I think it makes perfect sense what he proposes. This isn't going away, in fact, if we look at Northern Italy and China, it will get a hell of a lot worse before it ends or a vaccine is found.
We know the NHS was struggling to meet demands on it before this outbreak, a bit of common sense on jollies abroad would've been best practice but then with who some amongst us voted in, that's not the PMs modus operandi.
Your DH is sensible planning for what is going to be a hard road ahead. If you wish to ignore it, that's up to you.
The fact is, several cases have come about by people taking no notice of advice and presenting at their GP, sitting in the waiting room and putting many others at risk. We don't all follow advice. There isn't really much comeuppance for those who do ignore it. Hence some of us being rightfully concerned. Even those we as a country bankrolled to leave Wuhan and fed, and clothed and housed in quarantine said thank you by threating to walk out of their demands for more booze wasn't met. Not everyone uses the sense they were born with. Some are still on the "flu is worse" ideology that we now is completely false.

I wish your DH the best of luck getting you to see sense. There is danger, huge danger. And a vaccine is 12 months at least off.

@upthewolves

FWIW you sound lovely, sensible and a fab mother and partner.

You're trying to do what is best for everyone and that isn't what @bibibirdie seems to be able to understand.

Her comments really were inflammatory and even suggesting you shouldn't have had children is awful.

I hope you can see that most people on this thread understood your dilemma and that you were actually asking for help that would aid everyone in your family feeling more comfortable and safe.

Hope you and your DH are both ok

@bbirdie - it’s you who is personally attacking the OP. Just give it a rest!

@BiBiBirdie the OP has not personally attacked you.

She has pointed out, in an extremely polite and measured way, that you’ve been unpleasant and unfair. That is not a personal attack. People are allowed to say things like that. You can’t characterise any criticism of you as an “attack” no matter how carefully it’s worded

sorry my post above was for @BiBiBirdie

@canshopwillshop whatever! She has singled me out and made incorrect and sweeping accusations. I merely stood up for her DH and said I found it sad she would find being indoors such a chore. After that I've had a load of you have comments removed being abusive to me actually.
I have every right to stand up for myself when people are being nasty and saying absolutely disgusting things about me.
Because lots of MN seem to think CV is all fakery and not as bad as others are making out, you all have this hive mentality, it's been widely discussed with others on the CV threads where we are taking the threat seriously. But the hive mind elsewhere is if you prep or worry or plan you have something wrong upstairs.
As I said, for every ten of us taking it seriously and following advice when it's given in small amounts, there is clearly the rest of you who scoff, be derogatory and abusive.