Worried about coronavirus part 10

[GPwife2411]

Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3836973-To-be-worried-about-coronavirus-part-9

updated data on this page every day at 2pm until further notice.
www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#number-of-cases

It's not just like flu www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/yes-it-is-worse-than-the-flu-busting-the-coronavirus-myths

Why WHO not declaring a pandemic www.newscientist.com/article/2235342-covid-19-why-wont-the-who-officially-declare-a-coronavirus-pandemic/

Worldometer www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

BNO News bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

Link to WHO report www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019

The Lancet coronavirus hub - latest research and comment www.thelancet.com/coronavirus

JAMA coronavirus research centre jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/coronavirus-alert

I'm in London today and everything is as normal. Bars, restaurants and shops are busy, and public transport is about the same as usual. I've seen thousands of people and not one of them wearing a mask.

I do think that if anyone very anxious about Coronavirus is just reading threads such as this (although many posts are informative and helpful) and mainstream media then it may not help from an anxiety and mental health perspective. Someone earlier posted something like 'the world as we know it is about to change forever'. That's very dramatic.

I just wanted to give some balance. I'm anxious for both health reasons and financial reasons but life has to go on as normal for most.

Absurd to close schools. You cannot panic and go to ground in these situations. Imagine the impact on our children’s education to be off for months?

Authorities trying to force sick and at risk children to go to school

Italy's figures likely due to an older-than-european-average population with preexisting severe comorbidities.

I could be wrong but I don't think we'll see the effect of the lockdowns in Italy for at least a week, possibly 2, given the variable incubation period? That's if we see any effect at all. But what I mean is it's not necessarily bad that we haven't seen an effect yet.

I do agree that closing schools at this point would likely be too early, not sure how effective it would be in isolation re virus but huge societal impact.

I did agree with little of what I heard on R4 about balancing effect on virus and economic and societal impact.

I know they applied this to not banning flights but I do wonder why they don’t make a statement on limiting non-essential travel.

@AbsentmindedWoman sorry I wasnt clear. cos swine flu was related to other flu they had a huge catalogue of flu viruses to look at and work from.

London is as usual but by the time you see the effect I reckon things will be pretty bad, ie loads with the virus.

We could encourage home working too where possible.

I'll say it again, why aren't we restricting travel or making self-isolation compulsory?

Feedback from health experts I work with is the contain/delay/mitigate measures are the appropriate ones. Not sure if that reassures anyone or not but thought I'd share

I read in an article earlier (guardian I think) that ALL the deaths announced for Italy were over 60s. That was befote todays figures were released though.

I hope the italy figures are too do with their older population because otherwise its so worrying how many are hospitalised and how many in icu

ThankyouPeter that could play a part. I do wonder about all those who travelled through London to get home after Italy / elsewhere, lots would have been on public transport.

@GPwife2411 There was some info about the Italian figures on the guardian live feed- it is to do with the age and health conditions of those affected.

I believe there was a hospital involved in the initial Italian outbreak, so it stands to reason a lot of those affected won't be as healthy as the general population. It's an awful tragedy for the families of those affected, but the stats are perhaps a bit missleading (although I still think S. Korea's look unusually low as well).

It's a massive problem for them as a country, and I agree that we won't see the effect of the lockdowns until about the middle of next week.

Italy has a huge ageing population, 23% of the population is over 65, I believe it's only second to Japan. This will of course have a huge impact on the cases in ICU. All people who have died so far are over 65.

I know the over 60's matter, I have many older people who are very dear to me, but just keep this in mind with the Italian figures.

"Absurd to close schools. You cannot panic and go to ground in these situations"

worked for rhis town :)

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/gunnison-colorado-the-town-that-dodged-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic#maincontent

@Cheeseismylife I read that too.

BTW these are not meant to be read as "I'm alright Jack" posts. It's important to put the figures in context and also think about how we can stop situations like this and the US care home one from happening in the future.

Public health Wales has just said trips to Euro Disney can go ahead.

I don't think we can make useful generalisations from the 1918 flu pandemic- it's a very different illness, and medicine has moved on a huge amount in the last 100 years.

Thought you might all find this helpful. It's been circulated to the vast majority of employment lawyers in the country today by one of the barristers (Daniel Barnett) who posts updates. It's a bit wordy and techy since it quotes the legislation but it is the current legal position on sick pay. This might be changed by the government passing different legislation but I suspect not since it seems to give the necessary protection.

"Section 151(4) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 states:-

"For the purposes of this Part of this Act a day shall not be treated as a day of incapacity for work in relation to any contract of service unless on that day the employee concerned is, or is deemed in accordance with regulations to be, incapable by reason of some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement of doing work which he can reasonably be expected to do under that contract."

Is self-isolation a "specific disease or bodily or mental disablement of doing work"? I don't think so. It would require a very, very generous interpretation of that section to bring self-isolation within it.

BUT regulation 2 of the Statutory Sick Pay (General) Regulations 1982 provides:-

(1) A person who is not incapable of work of which he can reasonably be expected to do under a particular contract of service may be deemed to be incapable of work of such a kind by reason of some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement for any day on which either

...

[(b) he is—

(i) excluded or abstains from work, or from work of such a kind, pursuant to a request or notice in writing lawfully made under an enactment; or

(ii) ...

[by reason of it being known or reasonably suspected that he is infected or contaminated by, or has been in contact with a case of, a relevant infection or contamination]].

“relevant infection or contamination” means... (i) any incidence or spread of infection or contamination, within the meaning of section 45A(3) of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 in respect of which regulations are made under Part 2A of that Act (public health protection) for the purpose of preventing, protecting against, controlling or providing a public health response to, such incidence or spread

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 contain a declaration by the Secretary of State that the incidence or transmission of novel Coronavirus constitutes a serious and imminent threat to public health, and the measures outlined in these regulations are considered as an effective means of delaying or preventing further transmission of the virus.

So assuming that someone who self isolates does so because they are given a written notice, typically issued by a GP or by 111, then they are deemed in accordance with the Regulations to be incapable of work, and so are entitled to statutory sick pay.

But if somebody chooses to self-isolate, and/or is not given that written notice, then they are not entitled to statutory sick pay."

So in summary what this means is:

• If you're sick you are entitled to SSP
• If you are self isolating on advice and you have the formal written notice issued by your GP or 111 then you are entitled to SSP
• If you are self isolating without having the written notice then you are not entitled to SSP

@ofwarren reading the link you posted one of the comments on Twitter mentions my town. So tricky to get any information. Local gossip is saying it's the town down the road. Would be great to know rough location rather than just say the county. Its frustrating. Ps not moaning at you just at the powers that be. Thanks for the update xxx

Public Health Wales has just said schopl trips to Euro Disney can go ahead!!

@ThankyouPeter I completely agree with you and this is why the figures are so low. I have just read the NHS England Covid19 patient pathway guidance for the NHS 111 professionals and it seems the operating standards for testing are based on either relevant travel history to affected areas or confirmed contact with a verified Coronavirus case.

If you are self isolating on advice and you have the formal written notice issued by your GP or 111 then you are entitled to SSP

This was covered on Victoria Derbyshire yesterday.......the fact that you have to break your self isolation to go to the surgery to get it.

Are those numbers for Italy despite them changing the testing protocol and who they count as positive? I.e. lower than they would have been if they were still using last week's method? They're really suffering either way 😔 people in France are still treating it like a massive joke, despite what's happening next door.

I would really avoid Disneyland Paris, 4 out of 5 of us had awful norovirus when we last went!