Is the green party starting to regret it's association with Islamists?

[mids2019]

The green party, ostensibly about climate protection and general progressive values seems to have gotten into bed with Islamist sympathisers and the amount of anti semitism and basic hatred of their own country is now obvious.

The green party now at least locally are known as a party that has sympathies towards all manner of Islamist causes including Hamas's objective to wipe Israel of the face of the Earth.

Wouldn't be surprised if they produce a motion declaring climate change a Jewish conspiracy........

Sounds like something a white South African would have said in the 80's.

Ok so things have been tough in Palestine, any other democracies in the ME we can use as a beacon of hope?

But the solution to the mother worrying about her child coming home from school is for Palestinians to stop firing rockets into Israel, something that long predates Oct 7th.

Why - despite Jordan and Egypt having been part of the coalition that attacked Israel in 1948 along with Lebanon among others, and another war in 1967 - did Israel attack Gaza and Lebanon in 2023, and NOT Jordan or Egypt?

Could it possibly be that Jordan and Egypt signed peace agreements with Israel - and then kept them?

If you keep fighting after you've lost a war, the damage keeps happening. And that's where Palestine is. They can't beat the IDF, and unlike actual colonial powers such as Britain in India or America in Vietnam, Israelis have literally nowhere else to go, so they can't pack up and go home - so yes, until Palestinians do like Indians did when they lost Pakistan, or Pakistan did when it lost Bangladesh, or Biafra when they lost their attempt to set up a separate Biafran state, Palestinian mothers will still fear for their children. But the solution is for Palestinians to stop attacking Israel and to create a functioning state in the land they have. They had all of Gaza plus billions in aid - they could have created a state as rich as Monaco or even Singapore, but instead they used the aid to turn Gaza into a giant military camp from which to attack Israel.

And that's why Gazans have sh1t lives now.

Sure. What incidents are you talking about that weren’t preceded by attacks on Israel?

But the one million Arab Israelis who will have the same right to vote as any other Israelis next week mean that your comparison with apartheid South Africa fails right there.

I’d wager the guess that ‘democracy not being at the forefront of your average Palestinian's mind‘ wasn’t the reason Hamas denied them elections for over 15 years.

Oh dear. Your ignorance is showing again. Not only were the Israeli settlers forced by their own government to leave as part of a peace agreement, but they left millions of dollars' worth of market garden equipment* which could (should) have been used to continue the economic development that the settlers had made in the years they were there.

Instead Palestinians ripped out the equipment and either sold it or used parts of it to make rockets and other weapons against Israel.

• To be clear, what was left there was a gift from overseas donors, not from the settlers, who were paid by Jewish and Arab American charities to leave it so as to enable Palestinian-run Gaza to have an income source.

Wow. Talk about simplifying things. Israel have not, yet, tried to take over Jordanian or Egyptian territory so they are quite happy to keep them at bay. I think they are both aware that eventually Israel's aggressive expansionary policies means it might be an issue in the future. As far as Palestinians are concerned though, there are literally Israelis living, not just on their land, but in what used to be their houses. There is no comparison but King Abdullah's speech at the UN recently gave me hope. It is possible, after Trump, there might be a more moral shift in US politics and the billions of US tax payer money which is used to fund Israels expansionist ambitions might dry up. If there is a significant international political and economic isolation, Israel may actually be forced to implement some humanity in their policies.

Israel gave back the Sinai because they knew they would never be able to hold it indefinitely. Israel never gave up Gaza. Gaza is still internationally recognized as occupied territory by Israel. They still maintain a total air, sea and land blockade over the territory as well as controlling the energy, water and food that is allowed into the strip. The only reason Sharon pulled all settlers out was financial. An open air prison was much easier to maintain than trying to protect Israelis living on land that does not belong to them.

Okay, why only 2 million Arabs if it isn't an apartheid state. Why not all of them who have to live under oppressive Israeli rule with no suffrage.

So first you claimed that Israel has 'not, yet, tried to take over Egyptian territory,' and then you admitted Israel did capture the Sinai and later gave it back. Don’t you think you’re contradicting yourself here?

And why was the air, sea, and land blockade implemented again? Because it wasn’t imposed straight after Israel’s withdrawal in 2005.
It was put in place in 2007 as a direct security response after Hamas violently overthrew the Palestinian Authority, took total control, and began launching rocket barrages across the border.

So you’ve just moved smoothly on from “Israel have not, yet, tried to take over Jordanian or Egyptian territory“ to agreeing that they did indeed take over both places (having won them in war) and are now trying to move the goalposts!

Hilarious.

Are you serious here? It’s because they aren’t Israeli - and DON’T WANT TO BE ISRAELI 🤯

FYI Israel did organise elections in 2005 when they were in Gaza - the result was that Hamas got into power so Israel accepted that. Any further elections were then Hamas’ responsibility and they have chosen never to have elections again.

How (and why?) would Israel organise elections in Hamas-run Gaza and the PA-run West Bank? You’d be the first to complain if they did!

The Israeli government has historically maintained that Gaza is not "occupied" in the traditional sense following the 2005 disengagement, because it no longer has a permanent military presence or civil administration inside the strip.

Israel has argued that the territory does not meet the technical criteria for belligerent occupation under the Fourth Geneva Convention due to the lack of boots on the ground and the local governance by Hamas, categorizing the area instead as "disputed".

Before 1967, the Gaza Strip was controlled by Egypt (1948–1967), and prior to that by the British Empire (Mandate for Palestine) and the Ottoman Empire. Egypt does not claim ownership or sovereignty over Gaza today.

Wrong. It was declared permanent in 2007. The blockade started immediately in 2005. Israel took the Sinai temporarily during the 73 war but gave it back because they knew they knew they wouldn't be able to hold it permanently.

Israel can claim what the hell they like. It is internationally recognized as occupied territory. When you control the land, sea and air, control what goes in or out, it is occupied territory.

How do you know they don't want to be Israeli. The 20% non Jewish is by design not coincidence. That figure was decided well before Israel was ever invented as a form of political whitewashing.

[Sigh] Because the ones who have a vote are those who were born in Israel and therefore have Israeli citizenship. If they were born there they have citizenship.

The others live under Palestinian control and yet here you are blaming Israel for the fact that their governments have chosen not to have any more elections once Israel pulled out.

They don’t want to live in Israel so why on earth would Israel give them a vote - and importantly, where? In Gaza? Or in Israel?

You’re just not making sense.

Perhaps if Israel hadn't wiped out all their villages, they might have been born in their homes that their families had lived in for generations. It is a shame that the land is now populated by people who claim to have a connection to the land but obviously are more connected to Europe.

Exactly, the blockade was declared in 2007.
Before that, did Israel just decide to keep the borders closed for no reason?
Immediately after their withdrawal in 2005, rocket fire started from Gaza, followed by Hamas winning the elections in 2006.
The restrictions were a reaction to these escalating events.

‘Obviously more connected to Europe’?
More than half of Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern and North African descent, their families fled or were expelled from Arab countries after 1948.

Or do you mean by 'connected to Europe' Western principles like a parliamentary democracy, robust women's rights and LGBT legal protections?

I mean the olive trees which are currently being destroyed by the settlers and the IDF. People who know the land would never harm olive trees. Historically and culturally, olive trees have held a near sacred status across the Mediterranean, and ancient codes of honor and religious laws strictly forbid destroying them during warfare. It goes back to ancient Greece and the law of Solon. It is even in the Torah. A European would have no idea about the deeply visceral connection between an olive tree and the people. All Mediterranean communities enjoy an abundance of fruit trees on their land but the olive trees hold a special status. It is olive harvest season at the moment and the cruelty of the IDF and the settlers shows no limits when they assault Palestinians, including old women, who only want to harvest their olives. They rip up and burn the trees to punish them but the irony of that is that they prove they do not belong to the land because if they did, they wouldn't even consider such a blasphemous act.

What a strange thing to say. I definitely have not been a useful idiot for the IDF.