Is the green party starting to regret it's association with Islamists?

[mids2019]

The green party, ostensibly about climate protection and general progressive values seems to have gotten into bed with Islamist sympathisers and the amount of anti semitism and basic hatred of their own country is now obvious.

The green party now at least locally are known as a party that has sympathies towards all manner of Islamist causes including Hamas's objective to wipe Israel of the face of the Earth.

Wouldn't be surprised if they produce a motion declaring climate change a Jewish conspiracy........

You're claiming it's an internationally recognised fact. Yet other posters admit it's disputed.

Israel are spooky about opening their border to anything.
Tel Aviv is deeply concerned that a large, unvetted influx of people - including Hamas members or militants -- could cross into Israel.
Israel has fought a long-term counterinsurgency against Islamist militants...

...you get the idea. Once you see the antisemitism in the double standard, you cannot unsee it.

Not just the international community but the leadership of both Israel and Palestine would need a major shift in thinking (which isn't likely).

Israel leadership would naturally not be prepared to lose the only Jewish majority country in the world. As you noted earlier, not the current Jewish leadership or a potential new leadership.

And on the Palestinian side, the Palestinian Authority officially supports a two-state solution.

And Hamas - well. From their founding charter

The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).

Peace is not an option for Hamas, only violence:
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. (Hamas Charter, Article 13).

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/hamas-its-own-words

If I didn’t have a good grip on basic facts I would be very careful of going round accusing people of antisemitism. Still, not the first time you have got things badly wrong,

Please quote people if you are directing a comment at someone in particular, or it gets confusing.

If I didn't have a good grip on basic facts I would be very careful of going round accusing people of not having a good grip on basic facts.

(No idea whether this is the first time you've got things badly wrong, since you're nowhere on my radar.)

I am not so naive to see it is a huge ask on both communities, not just the Israelis. I do believe it would be a lot easier for the majority of Palestinians to accept because their life is so wretched at the moment. At the same time, there are going to be extremists on both sides who would never accept it. It would not suddenly become the utopian vision of Herzl over night but after 80 years of hatred, of course it is going to take time and cooperation from both sides. Surely it is better than the alternative though.

Palestinians wouldn't be able to accept it (even those that might want to) because Hamas wouldn't allow it.

There will be no co-operation from either side let alone both sides.

The alternative of a 2 state solution feels slightly more realistic. Though not any time soon, it will take a long time for wounds to heal after the massacre of 7/10/23 and of course Israel's deadly response.

Then thousands of Palestinians are going to die and the next October 7th is inevitable. What a negative way of looking to the future.

Sorry but I am a realist and a one state solution is not realistic (in my opinion) it's a fantasy.

At this moment in time, any solution seems like a fantasy. Until such a time, I believe it is pressure that needs to be put on Israel first as they hold all the cards so I'm sure we'll be clashing again.

It's the group that is hell bent on staying at war with Israel that keeps all the cards, or at the very least the ball is in their court. The war was started in 1948 by the Arabs, and they have perpetuated it ever since.

A good start would be for them to declare it over.

A One state solution is just to invite another holocaust really. It should be absolutely transparent that Palestinians would want to suppress Jews and aim to remove them from the state aided by Islamic law. You would simply have an exodus of Jews to other parts of the world and News having no state despite there being a host of effective Islamic states in the middle East (all non democratic with no rights for women). Let's stop thinking all is lovely in typical middle Eastern countries when I am reading in the guardian about a young Iranian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy this morning.

Dismantling the state of Israel would mean Jewish people would become minorities (as they are in every other country in the world).

There are almost no Jews left in any of the countries that once housed large Jewish communities such as Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Morocco and Tunisia.

Could lead to ethnic cleansing. People dress it up as two communities living peacefully together but we all know that isn't how it would end.

Yes, we only have to look at the numbers of Christians fleeing the middle east, to get an idea of what would happen to Jews in a one state solution.

Add to that the decades of hatred that has built up between Jews and Muslims in the region and I can definitely see why Israel wants to stay strong and well defended, even if that makes them unpopular.

The ANC didn't just "declare the struggle over" to achieve peace in South Africa. If they had simply gone quiet and accepted the status quo, the international community would have looked the other way and the apartheid system would have been completely normalized. Instead, they maintained their resistance and successfully turned world opinion against the regime, forcing the South African government to compromise. If the Palestinians simply go quiet now, the world will completely forget about them. They will remain in a permanent, wretched limbo while their land in the West Bank is steadily carved up by settlements, eventually leading to a complete ethnic cleansing. Resistance to an endless military occupation isn't about a desire for perpetual war, it is a refusal to be quietly erased from history. Peace cannot be achieved by demanding that an occupied, stateless population, simply surrender and accept permanently living with no basic rights or self determination.

"People dress it up as two communities living peacefully together but we all know that isn't how it would end." No you don't! That is simply fear mongering in order to excuse maintaining the brutal occupation and continued dispossession. I keep hearing pro-Israelis say that Jews have had a continuous presence in the land which is true and that was under Islamic rule. Why should things be worse when they are actually in a government with proportional representation. As I have already said, in the beginning there would be issues, probably violent, from extremists on both sides, but that would be dealt with by both sides.

I really think I do know it wouldn't end peacefully.

It's an opinion not a fact because neither of us know for sure how it would turn out but it's a very strong belief of mine that Jewish people would not be safe in a country that wasn't predominantly Jewish.

If you can point to a current Muslim majority country where Jewish people are treated as equals then I might think again. But I see no evidence of it as I look around.

Even the UK has become increasingly unsafe for Jewish people with the rise in antisemitic attacks.

There was tumbleweed when I asked posters whether they would hold up a sign saying “Refugees Welcome” if those refugees were Jewish people leaving Israel if from the river to the seas comes to pass.

I wouldn't have a problem hosting a Jewish person.
However, they wouldn't be able to have their Kosher meat here, as I am vegetarian.

The left love refugees and self determination except for Jewish people.

Agree. Or point to anywhere in the middle east and increasingly Africa, where jihadis (like those funded by Iran in pursuit of their caliphate) have treated non-muslims, or even muslims that don't follow the jihadis rules, without brutality that liberal 'westerners' would consider barbaric.

Such a blind spot for so many in the UK, and the green party have just noticed how keen some activists are to assert their power to those that oppose them - as per the thread title.

The Arab population of the ex-Ottoman empire certainly weren't. They persuaded the brits to turn boat loads away. Interesting echoes in history.

I have said all this before but I will try one more time. I have never disputed the fact that Jewish life across the Middle East and North Africa became entirely untenable after 1948, driven by a brutal combination of violent civil riots and discriminatory state laws introduced by Arab governments. I have never once suggested otherwise, but we have to look at why that happened. Arab regimes unfairly used the geopolitics of 1948 to target their own indigenous Jewish citizens, collectively punishing an entire population for the actions of a completely different state. Avi Shlaim explains this perfectly in his book.

Before that, the history of coexistence tells a completely different story. At the turn of the 20th century, under Islamic rule, Baghdad's population was nearly 40% Jewish. That is a massive presence, vastly overrepresented compared to the global population of Jews versus Muslims or Christians. For centuries, Jewish communities lived, thrived, and held significant political and commercial influence in the Islamic world. The idea that safe coexistence is a natural impossibility is totally disproven by the region's actual history.

I completely agree with you that antisemitic attacks have risen terribly, and it is a terrifying reality. But that rise has happened precisely because bigots and extremists maliciously attack the Jewish communities by using the military actions of the Israeli government to justify their bigotry. British Jews are not responsible for the policies of Israel, just as the Jewish populations of Baghdad or Cairo in 1948 were not responsible for the events in Palestine.

Citing the fact that minorities are unfairly targeted to justify an endless military occupation today is not a moral justification. If your core belief is that minorities can never be safe under a majority, then the alternative is simply maintaining a permanent and endless brutal occupation over millions of Palestinians while denying them self-determination and dignity. I refuse to accept that endless subjugation is the only path to safety.

In answering my post you couldn’t find a current Muslim majority country where Jewish people are treated as equals. Which says it all really.