IDF uncovers ‘complex’ 4.3-mile Hamas tunnel network in Gaza’s south

[Twiglets1]

The IDF said on Thursday it had uncovered one of the largest and most complex Hamas tunnel networks found so far in Gaza, a route stretching more than 4.3 miles and descending roughly 82 feet. A video of the tunnel is available to watch on X and on various websites including JNS in the link below.

The underground route, which the military said ran under “a densely populated Rafah neighborhood and through an UNRWA compound, mosques, clinics, kindergartens and schools,” included 80 hideouts.

Defence Minister Israel Katz tweeted on Thursday, “This is the tunnel where Lt. Hadar Goldin was held. More than 8 kilometers and 80 (!) bedrooms.

“We must destroy the underground terror city that Hamas built in Gaza. The IDF is working non-stop to carry out the mission,” continued Katz, who added, “Until the last tunnel.”

“The major challenge for Israel after the [first] stage of returning the hostages will be the destruction of all of Hamas’s terror tunnels in Gaza, both directly by the IDF and through the international mechanism that will be established under U.S. leadership and oversight,” Katz tweeted.

“This is the primary meaning of implementing the agreed principle of demilitarizing the Gaza Strip and disarming Hamas,” wrote the defence minister. “I have instructed the IDF to prepare to carry out the mission.”

www.jns.org/idf-uncovers-complex-4-3-mile-hamas-tunnel-network-in-gazas-south/

Ah there we go. No idea!
I am perfectly happy with Israel doing it as nobody else is stepping up. I have previously suggested that other ME countries should step up, as long as Israel had acceptable security guarantees.

Seems to me if you don't like what Israel is doing you need a workable alternative.

Exactly… “no idea” who should dismantle the tunnels & probably “ no idea” who they think would pay for all that expensive work.

In the absence of any other country offering to dismantle the tunnels or offering to pay for them to be dismantled in the way @RedTagAlan wants, I guess it’s up to the IDF to carry on dismantling them.

@RedTagAlan it’s not silly to nitpick over perceived propaganda but it is silly to nitpick over what the 80 rooms are labelled as and the length of the tunnel when we know it’s somewhere between 7-8 kilometres.

The newly discovered tunnel exists and it’s massive, that’s fact not propaganda.

Perhaps unfair to criticise the PP for not being able to put forward a solution when global experts can’t, either.

But it’s the court of MN, so “there we go”. [!]

Not really … it’s easy to criticise Israel for everything but if global experts can’t come up with a better way of dismantling the tunnels and armchair experts can’t either, then maybe a better solution doesn’t exist.

Something to reflect on.

It's your decision to accept propaganda at face value or not.

I prefer not to. But that's just me I suppose.

Who said global experts can't come up with a better way to dismantle the tunnels ?

I just Binged it, and first result was this discussion from The Modern War Institute at Westpoint.

What Can the IDF Do about Hamas Tunnels? - Modern War Institute (westpoint.edu)

Yup, this is what Propaganda does. It makes people dismissive of other sources, only the propaganda outlet is right. Or variations on that anyway.

Before you posted" .... if global experts can’t come up with a better way ...", did you fact check yourself ?

@HoppityBun said Perhaps unfair to criticise the PP for not being able to put forward a solution when global experts can’t, either.

I accept the reality of a massive great tunnel yes.

I was replying to Twiglets 1, who said : Not really … it’s easy to criticise Israel for everything but if global experts can’t come up with a better way of dismantling the tunnels and armchair experts can’t either, then maybe a better solution doesn’t exist.
Something to reflect on."

You are so confused @RedTagAlan

The global expert you chose to supposedly prove one of your points says this to say about the war in Gaza:

John Spencer, chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and a founding member of the International Working Group on Subterranean Warfare, spoke to a January 24 Middle East Forum Podcast (). The following summarizes his comments:

Hamas’s urban warfare strategy is “not to fight the IDF, but to cause … the international community to halt Israel before achieving a victory even after the horrific crimes of October 7.”

In 2007, after Hamas seized power in the “very dense piece of terrain” of Gaza, it spent over a billion dollars building over 350 miles of “military-only purposed tunnels underneath the urban areas of Gaza, ranging from just underneath buildings to over 200 feet underground.” Israel entered Gaza, where “every step you take, there’s a tunnel underneath you.” Recovering the captives “became one of the greatest military challenges of the modern era” for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF).

Hamas’s urban warfare strategy is “not to fight the IDF, but to cause … the international community to halt Israel before achieving a victory even after the horrific crimes of October 7.” In violation of the rules of war, Hamas uses a “human shield strategy” that puts civilians “in front of you so the enemy can’t attack you.” Using civilians and protected sites for military purposes “complicates the operations.” Hamas goes even further by using “a human sacrifice strategy,” stating it “needs civilians to die” and denying the population’s access to the protective tunnels that are for Hamas’s exclusive use.

The international community, with its anti-Israel/anti-Western/anti-war cohort, aided the enemy by pressuring Israel “to stop before achieving its goals.” They were assisted by “a whole host of United Nations-affiliated organizations” that barely condemned Hamas for employing its human shield and human sacrifice strategies. None of these organizations demanded that Hamas “surrender to unilaterally, unconditionally give up the hostages.” The pressure on Israel was additionally driven by social media. Unlike in other past wars, “this is the first war of this scale and intensity where you have cell phone-driven, social media-driven, algorithm-driven condemnation or footage” wielding global influence.

https://www.meforum.org/podcasts/john-spencer-on-israels-urban-war-in-gaza-a-technical-analysis

For sure there are tunnels yes. They are well documented, even from before the war. Film crews were given tours, Hamas made videos boasting about them.

Did you see anything in the posted story about if these tunnels were in use at all. Did you wonder why it took so long to find this one ? Did you not question anything in that article ?

Basic due diligence and critical reading.

due diligence and critical reading that's rich coming from someone who posted a link to a "global expert" where the person is pro Israel (not your intent I'm sure) and the topic he was discussing (which I'm sure you didn't listen to as it's 45 minutes long) - is not even about dismantling the tunnels.

The link I posted was the first example I found.

I can't actually see it, because the country I am in has heavily censored internet.

That's why I am interested in propaganda. I read propaganda all the time, so it's easy to spot.

I prefer not to fall under it's spell.

Simple as that.

Yes it is obvious you posted the first thing you came across & you haven't posted anything that discredits the statement by @HoppityBun that global experts have not been able to put forward a solution to dismantling the tunnels.

I feel sorry for you living somewhere the internet is heavily censored and you're forced to read propaganda all the time. Nevertheless, I think miles of physical tunnels was the wrong thing to question and it's hardly falling under propaganda's spell to acknowledge that a new huge tunnel had been uncovered (& hopefully destroyed soon, in my personal opinion).

It’s unfortunate you live somewhere information is so heavily restricted.

I see loads of information and have to be selective about what I read. I too recognise propaganda when I see it.

I’m quite shocked by the unthinking response to Gaza’s destruction. No one could be anything but distressed by the death of so many people, especially the children.

In that distress, we have to find a way forward. We have to work out how to avoid such tragedy happening again. Some seem content to look at the surface and say, ‘Israel’s weapons are causing the destruction, we must stop Israel having weapons!’.

That would achieve nothing to keep Palestinians or Israelis safe. It would lead to unfettered destruction from Hamas, supported by Iran and unhindered by Jordan, Egypt, any other neighbour.

The deaths of all those people in Gaza lie firmly on the hands of those who used them as human shields. There were only two kinds of people in Gaza, combatants and human shields. The only way to tackle the combatants was, sadly, at the cost of human shields.

I remember reading, nearer the start of the conflict, about a dentist who to his shock was used by the IDF as a conduit to get people to safety. He was told where would be targeted, and who needed to be evacuated.

The IDF were trying to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas were continuing to use hospitals and homes and schools full of people to cover their combatants.

The scale of the destruction is on them.

Shame on those whose superficial response is to blame Israel.

I hope what you said here " Shame on those whose superficial response is to blame Israel." is not aimed at me.

At no point here have I indicated a preference for either side in this conflict.

My position is that it's not a good idea to use propaganda.

When I see propaganda used in the free west, I just call it out. I am not allowed to do it where I live, if you see I mean.

So we had a massive red herring about whether a particular article was propaganda or not but the fact remains that there is a vast network of tunnels mostly built by Hamas, some before (still waiting for more information on the antique ones) most built for, or now used for, defensive and offensive warfare against Israel. They were never intended to support civilians and as far as we know never used to protect them.
If they are left then the infrastrccture that underpinned a lot of Hamas's offensive capability remains and Hamas can carry on underground undetected.
So obviously they need to be decommissioned in some way so they can't be used and it seems only the Israelis are prepared to do it. So let them get on with it.

Of course the tunnels need to be destroyed. That’s obvious and no other country is coming forward offering to destroy them so it looks like the IDF needs to carry on demolishing them.

Ironically, at an earlier point the IDF were criticised for “only” managing to destroy about 75-80% of the tunnels in Gaza. I think in reality most people can see that the more Hamas tunnels are destroyed the better.

Yes quite. Israel, damned if they do, damned if they don't!

You made a good point earlier about Israel spending money on Defense, where Hamas have spent it on tunnels etc. The tunnels aren’t bomb shelters for civilians.

No one has been talking about heading into the bomb shelters.

Hamas has spent its money on terrorism.

Taking out Hamas' million-dollar 'root' tunnel is game changer, analyst says

The video shared on X on Nov. 20 travels through reinforced concrete passageways and large chambers, showing the sophistication and scale of Hamas’s underground network.

The Israeli military claims the tunnel originated beneath a United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) compound and stretched beneath civilian sites.

Israeli analysts say the demolition of this tunnel marks a strategic blow to Hamas and "paves the path to its defeat."

"The destruction of this tunnel as well as many others like it or similar… as well as other terror facilities pushes Hamas to the edge," said Professor Kobi Michael, senior researcher at the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) and the Misgav Institute.

"It is one of the longest and [most] complicated tunnels that have been discovered, but it is not the only one," he told Fox News Digital.
Michael explained that Hamas’ root tunnels form the backbone of its underground warfare system.

"This is an example of a root tunnel, a strategic one that feeds many tactic tunnels and is used for strategic purposes [such] as command and control, weapon storage, manufacturing platforms of weapon[s] and strategic logistics," he said.

"Such a tunnel is usually manned by hundreds of militants and commanders."

"I have no idea about the cost but if you take into consideration the amount of the building materials, labor and facilities and its length, it is a matter of millions of INS," he claimed. "Hamas chose routes under sensitive civilian and humanitarian facilities in order to prevent the IDF from attacking the tunnel."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/taking-out-hamas-million-dollar-root-tunnel-game-changer-analyst-says

Don’t be silly. The bullets and bombs used to kill maim and terrify Palestinians (and other countries in the region) are not defence they are not shelters, they are not designed to promote peace.

It's not silly at all to point out that Israel spent huge amounts of money on defence - naturally that was for their own citizens (for example the Iron Dome).

Hamas did not spend money on defence for their own citizens unfortunately.

Hamas also uses bombs and bullets, and knives and, until recently, explosives strapped to suicide bombers. I don't think 7 October was designed to promote peace was it?

And defeating Hamas absolutely is designed to promote peace. I thought everyone opposed Hamas?

You know full well the point was that Israel invests in defending itself while Hamas glorifies martyrdom, hides behind human shields and provides no protection for its citizens while its leaders orchestrate mayhem from abroad or subterranean command centres.