Hamas won't disarm - that is the barrier to peace

[mids2019]

So Hamas probably will reject a peace plan that has been globally accepted including the PA as it refused to disarm. Hasan fighters would rather carry on basically a suicidal guerrilla campaign rather than lay down arms for a peace so many right minded people desperately want.

Don't Hamas realise they will lose Gaza and effectively their 'fighting' force will be groups of jihadis who engage in occasional small arms fire that in all likelihood result in their deaths? What sort of mind set does this group have where they are willing to prolong a vicious war with no thought to the people they are meant to stand for?

Hamas hope is grounded only in the West being weak and applying more pressure on Israel and conceding to the terrorist Hamas. If the West more fully backs Israel now then Hamas may lose that one deranged hope and possibly their doomed war may end.

When the people you are empathising with are Hamas you know you've gone wrong somewhere.

It's not about emphasising, it's about realism. Pragmatism.

It's not realistic for anyone wherever an individual, a terrorist group or a fully fledged country to give up it's weapons when your enemy has told you they'll use theirs against you. You use that for a reason for Israel to strongly arm itself.

If Gaza is to be left that vulnerable then someone needs to guarantee their safety and integrity.

Regardless of being granted a state by Bibi or not, if it was a choice between stopping a supposed 'genocide' or it continuing they'd take the peace deal wouldn't they

This whole state or no state thing is just an excuse. Hamas have the power to end the war by accepting the deal. Or they can turn it down and choose for the war to continue. Their choice.

It's not realistic to think you might be allowed to keep your weapons after losing a war you started.

But one could say the same about you and Netanyahu’s government. You don’t agree with all their actions but you empathise with their goals which is to keep Israel safe.

It works both ways.

While 10/7 was horrific… what about Israel & what they did to palestine people for decades? Do we just forget about that?
Do we forget israel are part of the reason people in gaza are starving to death they arent even allowed to fish as Israel wont allow them ffs.

This.

At some point, you have to be realistic. Hamas is only going to lead them further into death and destruction. The Jewish state is not going to go anywhere, and that’s the reality.

Hmm ... you have a bit of a point.

Though I don't personally think Netanyahu & his government are as bad as Hamas they are too right wing for my taste. However, I do empathise with their goals to protect Israel (not with the goals some of them have re the West Bank but seems like Trump has reigned them in on annexation now thank goodness).

You believe there should be a state of Israel. So do I. I also believe there should be a state of Palestine. Why don’t you?

I do

That isn’t good.

Did you bother to read the article from 2011 you posted

he was not killed by Hamas

“Vittorio Arrigoni, 36, was seized on Thursday by a radical group that has been in conflict with Hamas and is seeking the release of its leader.
Vittorio Arrigoni was seized by Salafist radicals, an Islamist movement itself that considers Hamas as too moderate, BBC Gaza correspondent Jon Donnison says.

the Hamas interior Ministry spokesperson
described the killing as a "heinous crime which has nothing to do with our values, our religion, our customs and traditions", and vowed to hunt down and bring to justice others who were involved

please do not post misinformation

Apologies, I made an incorrect assumption.
Why do you think that Hamas would agree when Netanyahu has made it crystal clear that he will do everything in his power to prevent a Palestinian state?

Who cares?

The poor guy was kidnapped in Gaza by a jihadist death cult, Hamas isn't the only one operating in Gaza, and then murdered

What security will there be for international journalists if they were to go into Gaza?

I mean, Spanish diplomats don't want to move to the new Palestine embassy in Ramallah. They want to stay in Tel Aviv 😂

Again, all that is an aside. You’re going with the principle of “might is right” and the idea that if you lose you have to pay the consequences.

But that is not going to solve anything in the long run. What we are talking about is equal rights and justice. Both sides deserve the right to live in self-determination and both sides deserve justice for the crimes committed against them.

If all of a sudden, the US pulled their support and the ME states formed an alliance and started turning Israel to rubble, you wouldn’t say to Israel “oh well, fair play, you shouldn’t start a war you can’t finish” or “ you need to surrender else you’re just warmongers who want to kill Arabs” would you? You wouldn’t bow to the Might is Right principle then so why do it now?

Also the IRA didn’t fully disarm until 2005 even that was staged.

Equal rights for Hamas to carry on holding weapons when they have a stated aim of killing all Jews ... I don't think so.

This current conflict was connived to demonise Israel as a genocidal rogue State of evil Jews where Hamas deliberately set the stage for their own people to be killed as human sacrifices to make Israel a pariah on the world stage, decimating it's economy by dragging out the war and reducing access to military weapons (hence the pressure on Western governments to refuse to sell arms) and when it was weak enough, other Arab countries like Egypt and Syria and also Iran may have joined the fray. Israel knew all this but they were quite literally damned if they didn't respond to Oct 7th and damned if they did.
I agree. Although Israel have played right into their hands with their response. If Hamas wanted peace and gave a damn about Palestinian civilians, they would have just released the hostages months ago. Its clear they couldn't care less. They just want Israel to be a pariah state, and Israel have fallen right into their trap.

The problem is, both sides are the mirror of each other in the sense of what they want to achieve and how they see each other. If the boot was on the other foot so to speak, Palestinians would bomb Israelis into smithereens, quite happily.

The only solution is to have 2 states, but how it can be separated and kept at peace? They will never stop fighting and trying to take land from each other. That region has been a nightmarish hotbed or fighting ever since the formation of Israel, and no one knows how to sort it out... there is no point in pretending some sort of nice and easy "free Palestine" solution exists (unless the idea is to get rid of Israel completely).

I think they should agree because the war needs to come to an end. What's the alternative? Should they they turn down the peace deal and allow the war to continue?

How many more people do they want to sacrifice? Does it matter if Israel recognises a Palestinian state? Most of the rest of the world does.

And it's a bit rich if Hamas dig their heels in over Israel not recognising a Palestinian state when they don't recognise Israel! They just refer to it as the 'Zionist entity'

We've been through this before haven't we, and you've even up accepting that's not what Hamas have said they want. I remember we discussed it at painful length.

Then you keep popping up sprouting the same information again.

Of course it matters whether Israel recognises a Palestinian state. It needs to stop sanctioning the illegal settlements, too. After decades of effective control by Israel, I think can understand why some would rather die than go back to that, especially now.

Nice rage-baiting topic! First class!

You must be thinking of someone else.

The principle of "might is right" may not be morally right.

But in the context of which side gets more say at the end of a war, it tends to be the way things go.

If you lose you DO have to pay consequences. Otherwise countries would be starting wars all the time if there were no consequences to losing.