Trump's new Gaza Plan

[Twiglets1]

Return of the hostages and an Islamic Arab government: Inside Trump's new Gaza plan:

The Trump administration has reportedly put forward a peace plan which would eventually lead to a complete end to the war in Gaza, a Western source told the Lebanese media site Elnashra on Wednesday, only a day after US President Donald Trump met with the leaders of Muslim countries.

The plan reportedly includes a 20-day ceasefire followed by the return of the hostages. It is unclear in the report, however, how many of the 48 hostages would be returned at this stage of the deal.

Following the return of the abductees, an Arab administration made up of Islamic nations would take over the administration of the Palestinian enclave, according to Elnashra. During this time, a Palestinian government would reportedly be built without the infiltration of Hamas.

Other sources told the Lebanese paper that the Muslim leaders attending the meeting with Trump were supportive of the American president's proposal. Still, they were reportedly awaiting a response from Hamas and Israel to see if the proposal could be fruitful.

The meeting was held on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York and included leaders from the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Indonesia, and Pakistan.

www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-868469

I agree with @PinkBobby I think the plan while maybe being a little optimistic is not bad at all.

Obviously the two major stumbling blocks are Hamas agreeing to disarming and Israel agreeing to any plan that sets in motion a Palestinian state at some stage.

Giving the Palestinians a state one mile from Jerusalem after October 7th is like giving Al-Qaeda a state one mile from New York City after September 11th. This is sheer madness. It’s insane, and we won’t do it… Israel will not allow you to shove a terror state down our throats.”

I think part of this depends at what point you can say Hamas can't act as any sort of government and I think we are reaching that point. The aftermath is going to be hard to manage and I think the emergence of various terrorist groups is going to complicate matters. Israel will want security so at least in the short term maintain a considerable presence.

I think we also need to consider voluntary displacement of Palestinian people as it will take a decades to reconstruct Gaza and it effectively offers no economic hope to Gazans. A tent city for years on end is not solution and will only increase Hasan grievqnce.

Of course Hamas can't take part in any government, both for their own ideologies and for the Israeli people to have any trust in the plan moving forward.

You have argued for displacement across a number of threads now. Why do you think this is so important?
If a Palestinian statehood is seen as possible for the population at some point I cannot see them ever wanting to move to a hostile foreign country, live penniless and then attempt to return to restart their lives in their country of birth.

I think that at least voluntary displacement could be an option that cant immediately be dismissed. Currently there is no infrastructure or jobs in Gaza and it will take decades to establish what we would consider a working economy. Remember a lot of western states including the US are cutting drastically down on aid so the question about how you keep Gazans in some sort of reasonable lifestyle is pertinent. There are many other impoverished states which require aid on this planet so why should Gaza go to the top of the list?

Of course we have some very rich gulf states and given the similarities of religion and culture having some new towns for displaced Gazans night actually be the humanitarian option.

It may not be about ethnic cleansing but about offering hope to a people who have lost everything No one on these threads seems to have an idea how a vibrant wealthy city state of Gaza can emerge and maybe the hard truth is it can't .

No one has really thought about the borders of a Palestinian state and realistically a 2 state solution is beset by problems. How can you have a single state in various territories within Israel? How do you have the same capital for two states? Should Jerusalem be partioned and how do you set up the governance? How would you negotiate with Israeli settlers?

To clarify @PinkBobby I wasn't referring to you in my comment. You made a perfectly reasonable observation that we haven't yet had a reaction to the plan from Netanyahu and you did acknowledge that there are positives to what's on the table. As you say, none of us know at this stage whether the plan is actually going to happen and I've been disappointed before when peace seemed close.

However, you may notice there hasn't been much interest in the plan from your fellow pro Pals (silly term but you know what I mean). Even when I copied and posted the 21 points in full on another thread they were all commenting on, the peace plan went ignored! That surprises me as I thought we all wanted peace more than anything and at the moment, this seems a positive step forward. Now I'm wondering if I have been naïve in my assumptions.

I am interested. However, Netanyahu and Trump haven’t even met yet, that’s tomorrow, so it seems a little bit premature. Will both sides agree?

It’s a long road ahead that’s for sure.

@mids2019 do you think Palestinians will accept any form of voluntary displacement considering the view in the past that the right to return was not respected and upheld.

Do you agree with a two state solution?
If not what is the possible alternative solution.

Yes it seems on the face of it to be a good plan.

The Times of Israel pointed out that there is a possibility that the plan could be partly implemented even if Hamas don't agree (point 17).

They also point out that the point 20 clause is not definitive regarding when the pathway to statehood could be achieved.

From Netanyahu's comments above (and just common sense, in my opinion) the 2 state solution could not be achieved any time soon while 7/10 is still so fresh in peoples memories and no guarantee it wouldn't happen again.

Part of the issue of displacement is that the “right of return” means right to return to pre-1948 settlements etc ie how things were before Israel was created.

I agree that people need to move for practical reasons so that Gaza will be rebuilt. I doubt that there is enough trust within Gaza for people to do so and I don’t doubt Hamas will actively tell people not to leave and make up all sorts of nefarious stories about what Israel will do if they do leave. How do you rebuild with everyone still there?

It doesn’t matter if we agree with a two state solution. Hamas doesn’t want one (and I find it highly doubtful that there won’t be any “former” Hamas member in the new regime) and Israel’s stance has certainly hardened since Oct 7. I think that aiming for a two state solution at the moment is futile and unrealistic. Neither side is prepared to contemplate it so the focus should be on stopping the current war and stopping the next one. Two states is decades away.

This conflict isn’t going to be resolved by leaving it to Israel & Palestine to sort out. They can’t. They’ve demonstrated that time and time again. The international community needs to get involved in maintaining security, distributing aid and rebuilding.

What do you think should happen if not a 2 state solution?

I agree that two states is a very long way away but I think the plan uses clever wording to keep the possibility of a two state solution alive (while not promising it either) in order to pacify both sides:

When Gaza's redevelopment has been advanced and the PA reform program has been implemented, the conditions may be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian statehood, which is recognized as the aspiration of the Palestinian people.

I do think there should be a two state solution.

There are two states, you can’t get rid of one.

My point is that focusing on having two states in the commonest meaning of the word is not currently practical.

It hasn’t happened in almost 8 years so why is it suddenly going to happen in the next few weeks?

Both sides are too entrenched in their positions to make the concessions necessary to facilitate living in anything even remotely resembling peace.

Two states can come when the damage of the last decades has been reduced to a level where killing people isn’t the go to option.

This plan seems to give both sides enough of what they want to move things forward. Both sides seem to want 100% which just isn’t going to happen. They both need to make big moves to show willing eg there’s no way Israel is going to withdraw without hostages being released so just release the hostages. Hamas isn’t going to put down their weapons without Israel withdrawing so they should withdraw (they’d be mental to but that’s just an example of the level if concessions that need to be made).

I think Gazans need to see what can be done without Hamas involvement and Israel needs to cede control to a “3rd” party as their level of involvement in Gaza just harbours anti-Israeli feeling especially when combined with Hamas anti-Semitic propaganda. If they can see a way forward that doesn’t involve destroying Israel then things can improve.

A 3rd party would also make sure the billions of $s that will be heading Gaza’s way doesn’t end up rebuilding the sodding tunnels!

A 3rd party would also make sure the billions of $s that will be heading Gaza’s way doesn’t end up rebuilding the sodding tunnels!

Here, Here! @Lolapusht

I agree with the vast majority of what you are saying, we are definitely on the same page .

It really is the time to move forward and see if next steps can be taken to ensure there is a peaceful coexistence. The most immediate one would be release of all remaining hostages and a cessation of active airstrikes. Nothing can move forward until both of these happen.

Do you think America is the best country to negotiate this. I don't know because they have a very poor track record in Afghanistan (last thing needed is a Taliban style group filling a vacuum when they leave) plus they will always be seen as very pro Israel.

I know then who else could do it is the answer.

Not to make light of the situation but I keep thinking of that Derry Girls episode where Catholics and Protestant teenagers are asked to name ways they are similar and they kept naming differences. The parallels could be drawn with this area.

Arguably America is not the best country to negotiate this though Trump is the only leader Netanyahu will probably listen to so in that sense, it does have to be America. Also, the 21 point plan was agreed by many Arab leaders at the UN so it does seem to have widespread appeal.

Love the Derry Girls!

That is very true . I am probably letting my own feeling towards the man cloud my judgement there. Realistically they also have the influence over other countries (Egypt/Jordan etc) that is needed.

I love it too!
Growing up(I was the same age as they were at the time)I never thought a comedy could be made of that situation so we can but hope .

I know, it's incredible that a comedy could be made out of that situation but it's so funny.

Mind you I also laughed my head off at The Book of Mormon musical and some of the jokes in that were things you never thought could be funny either!

One for the list so!

you won't regret it! (unless you're easily offended by blasphemy)

Nope 😉

I have actually found myself thinking of Derry Girls (which I also love) a few times when on this board. Humour in the darkest of times is actually really important & can be part of healing.

Absolutely. There is a lot of parallels between the two and the seemingly massive gulf between the sides. Humor can be such an important part of healing)

(FYI The headmistress nun was just the presenter in Traitors Ireland, she was unreal!)