It's not about genocide but about winning

[Mikkymik]

Further to my reply in the (now full) famine thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5396637-a-famine-has-been-declared-in-gaza-city?page=40&reply=146639624

I should point out that in my above post I've accepted - for argument's sake - that Israel is committing war crimes in its mission to win.

What Israel is absolutely not doing nor is it intent on doing, is genocide. Israel's aim is to win, which means disarming of Gaza and the return of the hostages. Once that happens not one more Palestinian has to die. It's not about killing a people (genocide) but about winning at all costs.

And frankly, as I said, the onus is on Gaza to surrender, seeing as they started this futile war.

Yet near two years into the war, Israel still claims that Gaza is under total Hamas control. So all those civilians have been killed for no reason whatsoever.

Israel has kept it's agenda in plain sight from the off. Genocide is the result, so what else can it be?

Ok so explain what is happening in the West Bank then?

The Knesset passed a resolution to annex the west bank.

Its about having the whole land and remaining a Jewish state. The only way to achieve that is ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians.

Israel is committing war crimes.
Israel is starving the people of Gaza.
Israel is arming Gazan jihadist militants responsible for the 7/10 attack.
Israel is committing genocide.

Isn’t genocide part of the ultimate goal of winning?

I would say it is a means to that end.

Not at all. The ultimate goal is to be able to live in peace without ongoing threats from the neighbor. As soon as that goal is achieved, which can happen by Gaza being disarmed and neutralized as a threat, not one more Palestinian from Gaza has to die. At least not by Israeli hand, though I can't speak for their safety from Hamas.

How can Gaza be disarmed when Netenyahu is arming Gazan jihadists?

Please explain the West Bank?

Isreal doesn’t think what you describe is possible long term though, I don’t think (eg the West Bank)

So I do think genocide is in their game plan, as a means to an end

No rebuilding Gaza for DaniellaWeiss and her followers?

And what about what is happening in the West Bank? Pushing out of a people from their land while state sanctioned terrorists steal it, harrass or kill the Palestinians?

I mainly agree with you but think that you use the word "Gaza" when what you surely mean is Hamas.

Hamas have to be surrender and be disarmed. And their leaders/militants have to leave Gaza.

🤔 Historically Israel is the aggressor especially with their settlement policies. That's been going on since the 1950's... Hamas came onto the scene in the 80's.
Israel wants land for settlements, the Gaza strip is actually very valuable in that respect. I don't think the end goal is living peaceful with their Palestinian neighbours at all.

“They started this futile war “ omg tell me you know nothing about the history of this conflict without telling me you know nothing about the history of this conflict. The UN has called it a genocide, I think everyone should listen to the experts there instead of uneducated internet commentators

Some people prefer to take the view of more unbiased sources than the UN which is known to have an anti Israel bias. Different organisations believe different things.

For example the UK government does not currently classify what is happening in Gaza as a genocide. In May 2025, it claimed in court that it had not seen evidence of genocide in Gaza and to date, has not changed it's position on this.

Personally, I trust the UK government more than the UN (or internet commentators) on this. I will believe there is a genocide in Gaza when they say they have seen enough evidence to classify it as such.

Interesting opinion. Not a perspective I would agree with but there you go.

Anyone?

Isn't the annexation of the West Bank in direct contradiction with the premise of this thread?

Is there a genocide in the West Bank? Not as far as I'm aware.

What is it you want me to explain? Specifically, what about the West Bank relates to my points in this thread?

Tulip just seems obsessed by the West Bank and shoehorns it into other discussions when she could just start her own thread about it.

I'd just really like it if kids could have food and medical care. If Israel are preventing sufficient food and aid from entering Gaza because they want to defeat Hamas, because they want to ethnically cleanse the region or because Netanyahu has a hard on for 'Greater Israel' I really don't care at this point. I just want to see the International community come together and make sure that this collective punishment of children ends.

The courts will decide in years to come whether or not what Israel are partaking in is genocide and I am happy to let them do that.

So whats going to happen to Palestinians when West Bank is annexed?

Its a slow genocide in my opinion.

Its a long-term intentional, systematic, State-
organized forced displacement and replacement of the Palestinians.

Its not focused on peace and security of Israelis but the occupation and domination of all of historical Palestine that robs Palestinians of their dignity and freedom. Im not a genocide expert so maybe im wrong about it being classed as a genocide.

But to pretend this is all on Hamas and not about the expansionist aims of Israel is disingenuous.

The end Israel is looking for is to live in peace and security. It's really up to their neighbours on how to achieve that.

Israel has shown in the past that it's more than able and willing to compromise and bend over backwards in order to live in peace. Right now it's also pretty obvious that Israel is fed up of being under attack for over eight decades, and is willing to do whatever is necessary to stop the attacks and live in security.

So then it's Gaza's choice on how to proceed. They can either continue fighting to the last man, or accept they've been defeated and surrender. Either way they've lost, it's only a question at what cost, and only Gaza can answer that question.

How should I know what's going to happen to Palestinians if/when the West Bank is annexed?

I don't know anything about that, I came on this thread to make a comment on the topic of @Mikkymik 's thread, not to debate your opinions about something else.