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Conflict in the Middle East
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36
dairydebris · 24/08/2025 11:19

Vivi0 · 24/08/2025 11:15

Wow. You put that response together rather quickly. You drafted this post in less than 2 minutes.

impressive.

But it would be nice if people could at least try to engage with threads beyond copying and pasting, posting links, posting YouTube videos, calling others “genocide defenders/deniers” (what a joke that one is), engaging in conspiracy and outright lying to themselves and others about the meaning of words.

Edited

Ah, you see it too. Sometimes I think I'm losing my mind on here.

Love how @SharonEllis puts it too. Palestinians deserve people to make their arguments with truth- its the only way forward.

Lolapusht · 24/08/2025 11:20

Faking a Famine: Politicization & Propaganda

A famine has been declared in Gaza city
ScrollingLeaves · 24/08/2025 11:24

Lolapusht · 24/08/2025 11:20

For shame.

SaltAirAndTheRust · 24/08/2025 11:25

Vivi0 · 24/08/2025 11:15

Wow. You put that response together rather quickly. You drafted this post in less than 2 minutes.

impressive.

But it would be nice if people could at least try to engage with threads beyond copying and pasting, posting links, posting YouTube videos, calling others “genocide defenders/deniers” (what a joke that one is), engaging in conspiracy and outright lying to themselves and others about the meaning of words.

Edited

So now people aren’t allowed to use resources to research?😂

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 24/08/2025 11:26

dairydebris · 24/08/2025 11:19

Ah, you see it too. Sometimes I think I'm losing my mind on here.

Love how @SharonEllis puts it too. Palestinians deserve people to make their arguments with truth- its the only way forward.

I find it so dispiriting. Palestinian civilians are a pawn in everyone game, worst of all those who claim to be their supporters.

PinkBobby · 24/08/2025 11:28

Twiglets1 · 24/08/2025 11:13

They have a lot of licence to mouth off with their unpalatable opinions, it seems.

But Netanyahu presumably wants to win another election so he has to be more moderate. Even so he is likely to lose the next election in Israel in 2026.

Plus I think he would be relieved for other countries to have responsibility for running Gaza. It would just be an ongoing headache for him where realistically he would his leadership would never be accepted. Far easier for others to do it who are seen as more neutral.

Mouth off and push through policy that really harms Palestinian people. I think it’s really important to acknowledge that they aren’t just saying these things. They are making them law/policy.

With PR, the best he can hope for is a coalition. I assume there will be at least some support for the right wing elements but how much I’m not sure. Based on how the world is going, more right wing voters wouldn’t be a shock.

I’m sure at least part of Netanyahu would love to run away to some island and never talk to anyone again. But he is in charge of his country at war and I’m sure that’s an impossibly hard task. Saying this, I think appeasing the extremists in his government to keep power is something to criticise. Perhaps changing leader mid war isn’t realistic but still - he has sold out to a certain extent to those extremists and Palestinians are the ones suffering.

Twiglets1 · 24/08/2025 11:34

PinkBobby · 24/08/2025 11:28

Mouth off and push through policy that really harms Palestinian people. I think it’s really important to acknowledge that they aren’t just saying these things. They are making them law/policy.

With PR, the best he can hope for is a coalition. I assume there will be at least some support for the right wing elements but how much I’m not sure. Based on how the world is going, more right wing voters wouldn’t be a shock.

I’m sure at least part of Netanyahu would love to run away to some island and never talk to anyone again. But he is in charge of his country at war and I’m sure that’s an impossibly hard task. Saying this, I think appeasing the extremists in his government to keep power is something to criticise. Perhaps changing leader mid war isn’t realistic but still - he has sold out to a certain extent to those extremists and Palestinians are the ones suffering.

We come back to the fact that Netanyahu doesn't want to govern Gaza he wants an Arab coalition to do so but with overall Israel security and control. Hopefully that is a compromise that will be palatable to most involved people.

Netanyahu is not popular in Israel so I imagine the next government will be less right wing (no guarantee of that of course but we see how politics go in our own country when people get sick of a right wing government or a left wing one so vote for change).

I agree with you on the point that appeasing the extremists in his government to keep power is something to criticise. Many Israelis are critical of that too and will have the power after the war to punish him for it.

Twiglets1 · 24/08/2025 11:35

SharonEllis · 24/08/2025 11:26

I find it so dispiriting. Palestinian civilians are a pawn in everyone game, worst of all those who claim to be their supporters.

Yup I agree ... is anyone at all putting their interests first? I can't see it.

zerofeeling · 24/08/2025 11:40

Twiglets1 · 24/08/2025 11:34

We come back to the fact that Netanyahu doesn't want to govern Gaza he wants an Arab coalition to do so but with overall Israel security and control. Hopefully that is a compromise that will be palatable to most involved people.

Netanyahu is not popular in Israel so I imagine the next government will be less right wing (no guarantee of that of course but we see how politics go in our own country when people get sick of a right wing government or a left wing one so vote for change).

I agree with you on the point that appeasing the extremists in his government to keep power is something to criticise. Many Israelis are critical of that too and will have the power after the war to punish him for it.

'Overall Israeli security and control' - how on earth would that be 'palatable' to people who want their own State recognised? Israel has demonstrated for decades that it cannot be trusted with control over Palestinian lives.

Gloriia · 24/08/2025 11:44

Lolapusht · 24/08/2025 11:20

I posted similar upthread but it was dismissed as being from a pro Israeli source.

It'll be ignored here I bet.

The IPC need to be scrutinised. The UN need challenging. Tom Fletcher needs sacking but nope it's all the IDF starving people.

PinkBobby · 24/08/2025 11:46

Twiglets1 · 24/08/2025 11:34

We come back to the fact that Netanyahu doesn't want to govern Gaza he wants an Arab coalition to do so but with overall Israel security and control. Hopefully that is a compromise that will be palatable to most involved people.

Netanyahu is not popular in Israel so I imagine the next government will be less right wing (no guarantee of that of course but we see how politics go in our own country when people get sick of a right wing government or a left wing one so vote for change).

I agree with you on the point that appeasing the extremists in his government to keep power is something to criticise. Many Israelis are critical of that too and will have the power after the war to punish him for it.

But what other country lives under the security and control of another government? The reason we are where we are is in part because Palestine has been under various levels of control by Israel for decades. Surely the aim is to establish a government that is for the Palestinian people but moderate in that it’ll work with Israel to ensure security of both nations’ people? Israel can’t control Palestine forever and not expect some parties (with varying degrees of extremist ideology) to push back against that control.

I really hope things go the way you see them going in Israel re a more moderate government. I fear that there is a chance things will go more right wing but you know me - always the negative, cynical one!

SaltAirAndTheRust · 24/08/2025 11:56

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Gloriia · 24/08/2025 12:00

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No-one wants hamas to keep the gazans suffering. Hopefully once the terrorists are destroyed some kind of compromise can be reached that doesn't involve blowing billions of funding on more tunnels and weapons.

SaltAirAndTheRust · 24/08/2025 12:01

Gloriia · 24/08/2025 12:00

No-one wants hamas to keep the gazans suffering. Hopefully once the terrorists are destroyed some kind of compromise can be reached that doesn't involve blowing billions of funding on more tunnels and weapons.

Funny that you think starving the citizens will help them

OP posts:
Gloriia · 24/08/2025 12:03

There is nothing funny about how hamas are making their people suffer.

SaltAirAndTheRust · 24/08/2025 12:06

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Gloriia · 24/08/2025 12:11

No one is entertained. You're the one who keeps saying 'it's funny'.

The conflict is horrific, the terrorist organisation needs destroying.

zerofeeling · 24/08/2025 12:17

Gloriia · 24/08/2025 12:00

No-one wants hamas to keep the gazans suffering. Hopefully once the terrorists are destroyed some kind of compromise can be reached that doesn't involve blowing billions of funding on more tunnels and weapons.

No one believes that the terrorists are going to be destroyed. The actions of Israel have ensured decades even centuries of further bitterness and hatred among Palestinians.

Gloriia · 24/08/2025 12:18

zerofeeling · 24/08/2025 12:17

No one believes that the terrorists are going to be destroyed. The actions of Israel have ensured decades even centuries of further bitterness and hatred among Palestinians.

Hamas knew exactly what Oct 7th would unleash.

Montysmoon · 24/08/2025 12:19

PinkBobby · 24/08/2025 10:52

Oh absolutely not. My response, I suppose, is some dream situation where the Israeli gov genuinely has the Palestinian people’s interests at heart. All evidence suggest this is not the case. I think Israel should help rebuild Gaza after the harm they have done but any help Israel should or could provide would be, in my eyes, pointless if the aim isn’t to create a safe, independent Palestinian state that doesn’t rely on Israel for its economy or ongoing infrastructure.

Sadly, I think Israel (in its current form government wise) aim to take control of Gaza (and potentially the West Bank eventually) and to rebuild it for Israeli settlers not for Palestinians. I base this on things that the Israeli government have said and the renewed push for large settler development in the WB.

I’m sorry but why should Israel go above and beyond to look after the Palestinian people? Yes Hamas is the enemy but the Palestinians voted for Hamas and continue to give them support (including helping to hide Israeli hostages) and from birth are indoctrinated to hate their Israeli neighbour. That is just not realistic of any country at war.

DrPrunesqualer · 24/08/2025 12:27

Some news articles siting numbers affected by starvation in Gaza
25% of the population

A famine has been declared in Gaza city
A famine has been declared in Gaza city
Mikkymik · 24/08/2025 12:28

Zonder · 24/08/2025 06:43

I'm guessing you would support both sides surrendering hostages? I'm sure you're right and that would go a long way in helping bring this terrible situation to an end - so long as enough food and aid was allowed into Gaza to support the current population and the returned one.

I have no idea what you mean, but regardless here is how I see it.

For argument's sake I'll take the (rational) anti-Israel pov:

Gaza started a war on Israel, which included wholesale rape/murder, and the capturing of hundreds of innocents. Israel has decided it's going to win this war once and for all, rather than prolonging suffering with ceasefires as it has done in the past, basically ever since it's inception.

This actually makes sense, as ceasefires in the past have only served to allow the enemy to regroup and rearm, leading to more bloodshed. On both sides, but Israel's primary concern is the bloodshed of its own people.

Israel started the offensive very legitimately, and pretty soon it was clear this isn't a war that Gaza can win. Ideally that was when Gaza should have surrendered - if it at all cared about its people.

Their pride and culture didn't allow them to do so, and they continued fighting in spite of suffering heavy losses.

At some point Israel stepped up its offensive - using tactics which some might argue constitute war crimes. For argument's sake, let's say it is so. All this means is that Israel might have a case to answer once the war is over.

However, it is still Gaza which is prolonging the war despite the terrible conditions. It's pretty clear Israel is intent on winning, so at this point, the only rational solution is for Gaza to surrender. If instead they want to continue fighting the senseless war they started, to the last man standing, it appears Israel is willing to accept their terms.

Which brings me back to my original question, why not surrender? Is Gaza really intent on sacrificing every man, woman and child for a war they'll inevitably lose? Just admit defeat, surrender and return the hostages. Anything else is pure idiocy.

Vivi0 · 24/08/2025 12:28

@SaltAirAndTheRust Your post was deleted whilst I was responding, but I’m going to post my reply anyway.

You're joking, right?

All everyone does is discuss Israel’s role. Rightly.

These discussions happen over and over. Hundreds of threads worth.

It is only discussion of Hamas’ role that will not be tolerated. There are a couple of people who try to, but for most, it cannot and will not be tolerated.

denying Israel’s role

I just cannot believe for a moment that you actually believe this.

There is no way you can believe this.

Attempting to discuss the complexities around this conflict, rather than running with the Israel are GENOCIDAL WAR CRIMINAL EVIL OCCUPIER COLONISERS viewpoint, doesn’t mean that anyone is denying Israel’s role.

But Israel are not the only actor. Despite the commitment of some people here to make them so.

From reading this board, you would struggle to believe that Hamas even exist in Gaza.

DrPrunesqualer · 24/08/2025 12:28

289 people including 115 children have died so far due to starvation

A famine has been declared in Gaza city
DrPrunesqualer · 24/08/2025 12:30

and finally a heartfelt plea from Holocaust survivors 🙏

their compassion and lived experience is respected by all I’m sure

A famine has been declared in Gaza city
A famine has been declared in Gaza city
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