Gazan GHF workers left to die at hospital where Doctors Without Borders is.

[CyberStranger]

As stated by GHF spokesman Chapin Fay in the below interview with Channel 4 new presenter Krishnan Guru Murthy.

At 7.30 minutes in the video, Mr Fay stated 9 local workers were murdered and the 20 injured were refused treatment at Nasser hospital, where Doctors Without Borders were, and left to die in the courtyard.

These were Palestinians!

Why was there no outcry about this? It seems that they were refused treatment because they were working for GHF. That is shocking.

It was interesting that Mr Fay said GHF is funded by the US as well as several donor countries from Europe who don’t wish to be named.

The whole interview was an absolute car crash and the presenter was totally unprofessional and disgustingly rude IMO, sitting in a comfy newsroom while firing allegations at an organisation who’s workers are at massive risk, getting death threats, and are actually being killed for trying to get free (as it should be) aid to Palestinians and from the response from a lot them at the sites, they are needed.

I think it’s pretty obvious why there has been conflict outside of the aid centres TBH.

I commend Mr Fay on his patience I have to say.

A disgusting smear attempt from Channel 4.

I wonder if Guru Murthy will take up the offer to go into Gaza himself.

www.channel4.com/news/ghf-challenged-on-funding-and-gaza-aid-site-killings

And as the interview I shared last night discussed, all this debate over specific numbers or the definition of starvation or even genocide gets in the way of the actual issue which is that a lot of people are clearly dying. You cannot bomb an area so densely populated and not be hurting/killing many many people.

Hamas are doing horrendous things, I’m sure, and we will probably never know the true extent because so many first hand accounts of their actions are lost. But Israel are not some poor misunderstood victim in all of this - the people with real power in the Israeli government clearly want that land clear of anyone and everyone. They have also suffered greatly and Hamas need to go but I think Israel’s aims are pretty obvious now. And if/when this same thing happens in the WB, it’ll be impossible to deny. They desperately need a change in government or it’ll be years of pain for Palestinians and Israelis.

Hear hear for a change of government for both sides.
Hamas to unconditionally surrender now etc.
And Israel to democratically reject the extreme positions recently taken up.

Absolutely .

We can debate specific numbers in the aftermath of all this but the most immediate need is a complete change of leadership which would hopefully stop the carnage.

Yes a lot a people are dying. Also a lot of the Gazan population appear malnourished and some of the most vulnerable (mainly babies & young children) have been dying from malnutrition associated causes.

The exaggerations some come out with though - they don’t help. Between us on MN we argue about the numbers or about sick babies being passed off as all their medical issues being caused by a lack of food when in some cases they have underlying health conditions so it’s more nuanced than that. Also, some of us are more facts driven, some more led by emotions.

Because some on MN use propaganda to exaggerate things that are quite frankly bad enough & need no exaggeration, it leads to us arguing amongst ourselves about numbers etc. Whereas we can probably all agree there are too many innocent Gazans dying in Gaza and too many vulnerable people dying or getting sick from lack of food and especially quality food.

Definitely.

How to make that happen though?

Israeli citizens can achieve it through the democratic process at the next election in - I think - 2026.

But Hamas need to be made to do it as they have no democratic process.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000010328913/when-is-it-genocide.html

Realised I shared this on a different forum so sharing again here as it’s v interesting.

For context, Sands KC is a top international law specialist and has written about the holocaust in relation to international law and his own family’s experience. He discusses the idea of genocide v other war crimes, getting ‘lost’ in definitions and his thoughts on the current situation in Israel/Gaza.

Well worth a watch if you can spare the time.

The million dollar question 😬😬😬😬
How to make Hamas do it indeed.

What happens though if Israel vote in extremists again? Their PR system means that minority voices are more likely to have a major say in policy. Which is why Smotrich can so what he is doing in the West Bank. We have it in Ireland too and parties like the Green Party with 4 or 5 seats have influenced massively government because they hold the key to the majority parties staying in power .

Hamas at this stage have no right to even be a part of a democratic process they gave up that right 22 months ago . It's just how the process comes about will be the issue.

Will look at that this evening when I don't have the "d"c demanding attention.
Thanks for sharing.

This is the issue. I sadly think Hamas will fight to the bitter end rather than surrender and I wonder whether Israel would hold elections next year if they’re ’at war’. I don’t know if they can constitutionally delay elections in such times.

They certainly seem to be holding on til the bitter end. Its awful to see the completely pointless waste of life. And more, how future prospects for a Palestinian state look worse and worse.

I think that Fatah and the PA should be in serious talks with other Arab States about how to put pressure on Hamas to surrender and go into permanent exile, and there should be some kind of interim Arab led admin of Gaza while new Palestinan political parties form.

I know I'll get flamed for saying this, Palestinian leadership is a shambles, always has been. And the lack of support from other Arab states ( other than the odd statement ) is a shame too.

I don't know what the answer is.

I obviously can't guarantee that it couldn't happen but Netanyahu & his right wing government has lost popularity. According to Statista:

As of March 2025, a majority of Israelis held an unfavorable opinion of their Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. A year prior, Netanyahu's approval rating slummed to 41 percent, the lowest in over a decade.

58 percent of Israeli adults did not approve of him at that time. This represented a significant loss of support since the politician's peak popularity in 2015. Since the start of the Israel-Hamas war on October 7, 2023, the Prime Minister has faced a growing disapproval.

www.statista.com/statistics/1482429/israel-public-approval-rating-of-benjamin-netanyahu/

Good to know thanks for that.

As I said it's more the PR system that worries me although if the extreme right wing parties are seen as toxic the majority parties won't go in with them. Here the two major parties (up to now, politics have no morals) refuse to enter govt with Sinn Fein.

I can't think they'll go extremist as a nation.

But look at The States. Many others.

The world feels like a dark place at the moment.

One major problem seems to be drivers of the aid are at risk from Hamas too.

There is precedent for countries delaying elections in war time. The UK postponed its scheduled 1940 general elections in world war 2 and Ukraine has done so more recently.

You would hope that this war will be over by October 26 which is when Israel elections are due.

Hamas need to have political pressure put on them to surrender, from countries they would actually listen to. Someone yesterday suggested Qatar.

Well this is another problem, isn’t it. If they have wiped out Hamas by then, they could get reelected on that platform and then have a huge mandate for acting in a similar fashion in the WB.

@Twiglets1 that’s interesting info, thanks for looking and sharing. It’s hard to gauge how the Israeli people would vote - you read that info and think they’re ready for change and then there’s info like this:

“78% of Jewish Israelis, who make up four-fifths of the population, believe that given the restrictions of the fighting, Israel "is making substantial efforts to avoid causing unnecessary suffering to Palestinians in Gaza".
The pollsters also chose a more personal question, asking whether individuals were "troubled or not troubled by the reports of famine and suffering among the Palestinian population in Gaza?"
Some 79% of Jewish Israelis surveyed said they were not troubled”. (Israeli Democracy Institute poll in a BBC article).

Maybe I’m naive and or too cynical of the IDI’s reliability but I can’t believe this is a genuine reflection of how Israelis feel about the situation, especially when you look at the info @Twiglets1 shared. If it is, then it seems likely that elections would not be the beginning of more moderate days.

Yes a lot of the world moving further right.

Ironically it seems to be due to fear of extremism. Or is that logical? I don't know any more.

My post may get deleted.

All I can say is, if you don't trust the reporting coming from inside the occupied territory, listen to the testimony of foreign medics. The Paediatrician, the plastic surgeon, the nurse. The types of casualties and conditions they are witness to, not just in this conflict, but the many times they have gone to the aid of these people.

Watch the testimonies of former aligned I-s-r**lis, both uniformed and civilian. Watch the testimonies from family who now live abroad.

Read up the G*noide convention. Think.

Watch the thousands of videos the bombing, aid blocking, scrambling, the videos showing resilience and also complete despair, those with unwavering determination to seek food for their families, the videos of weeping of bereaved children and spouses. The children dismembered, malnourished and starved, the boy with Down's Syndrome hyperventilating at the sound of bombing and gunfire being soothed by his mother and father and relatives. The 80 year old man at the frontline for food aid passing out. The pattern oof barbaric, targetted injuries to those seeking food.

Listen to the testimonies of children, spouses, parents, grandparents and other relatives who have had their family members murdered in the thousands.

This all started way, way before October 23.

I've found that poll you mention @PinkBobby and it is quite a small sample carried out in just one week of 601 Jewish interviewees and 152 Arab interviewees.

Some of the responses are very disturbing and what comes out clearly is a big lack of trust on any information presented by "the other side" (we see this on MN too!)

We all know the conflict between the Israel government and Hamas started well before 7/10.

Still, what we are discussing is this current war and we go down a rabbit hole if we start discussing historical injustices that happened (on both sides) before then.

With respect, I think you should start a separate thread if you want to highlight individual testimonies etc because that is very much not what we are discussing on this thread.

Posts don't get deleted for mentioning Genocide btw. That is a matter of opinion that people are free to discuss. But please don't hijack a thread to shoehorn your views about it into any discussion at all.

I take your point.

I used to be all in favour of the PR system and have for years wanted the UK to adopt it. This situation with the Israel elections does show one of the potential problems. Though it's encouraging what you say about Ireland.

No system is perfect and like Israel we have had lots of coalitions and independents/small parties propping up governments. It does mean there are a lot of checks and balances on more controversial decisions (independent tend be more on the ground with voters than the big parties so they are more susceptibility to it )but the usual victims to the wrong policies in the next round of elections are the small parties .

Anyway sorry for the derailment. I find it very interesting especially compared to the UK system

Thanks for digging a little deeper - I must admit I’m relieved it is a relatively small sample.

It is good to see MSF show impartiality- as aid agencies have been criticised for being otherwise in the region.

One part or the GHF claim has already been debunked- Doctors Without Borders were not there.

Agree that we can’t trust Hamas, nor does it seem GHF knows what happened. GHF spokesman needs to be clear on evidence when making such claims as otherwise risks undermining their independence and credibility. Perhaps they will provide more details.