UEFA have finally taken a stand

[LifeOfAShowGirl]

https://x.com/uefa/status/1955706670824235327?s=46

A mild, late, spineless stand. But a stand. It makes me wonder how much longer this can go on before governments realise people are fed up of this.

Hamas was wrong to take the hostages.

Israel is wrong to violate the human rights charter they have willingly signed up to, by arbitrarily detaining people without charge, hearing their cases in private and detaining children.

Both can be true at the same time and one being worse than the other does not negate the other being bad.

'Hamas was wrong to take the hostages'

Yes, they were 'wrong' to take hostages. I suppose you got there in the end.

But you don’t agree that Israel are wrong to violate human rights? Says it all.

I tell you what though, I bet any 'judiciary system' in gaza is a million times worse than detaining someone without charge. Sharia law, not for the western fainthearted keffiyeh wearers.

You just don’t get how you’re harming your cause do you?

As I've said what 5 times now? The judiciary in the Middle East is a million miles away from our western systems

They cut hands off thieves in Saudi you know. I don't think Israel do that but I bet the BBC and Amnesty international would be delighted if they did.

Saudi Arabia is irrelevant. At the end of the day, you’re refusing to condemn human rights violations.

Well I could say the same about you. How on earth can you argue that a country detaining anyone without charge is in way shape or form comparable to terrorists committing atrocities and abducting hundreds of innocent people. The argument is grasping at straws.

I don't have a cause. I'm on mn, I'm not out with my placard and flask.

Ah yes balance and examples of similar issues are irrelevant. Of course. Maybe it's time for a funny gif.

Do you genuinely not see that detention without charge is just another word for hostage?

But these people haven't even been charged with anything so as far as the law is concerned they are innocent? They have just been rounded up off the street, taken away, held without their consent, tortured, abused, starved and in some cases they are killed.

We've all seen the videos of what happens in the West Bank for instance, we've seen the situations where violent Israelis attack Palestinian homes and farms, where in some cases they shoot and even kill Palestinians and it's the Palestinians dragged away. The idea that all of these Palestinians are guilty is farcical.

Some of them are children. CHILDREN!

Would you be shocked to hear that the age of criminal responsibility in England & Wales is 10?Anyone under the age of 18 is a child. Legal marriage age was only raised from 16 to 18 in 2023. Legal age to join the armed forces is still 16.
Childhood is a very different concept in many parts of the world, you may find that subjectively unpalatable, but the objective reality is that terrorists weaponise children.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups

I am aware of the age of criminal responsibility and disagree with it being aged 10 in this country so I don’t know what your point is there.

I don't suppose you do.

Hamas stopped the practise of using children as suicide bombers or militants over 20 years ago so how does that link justify the false imprisonment, torture and starvation of small children.

As your Wikipedia article also states, Hamas leadership made several statements over 20 years ago that child soldiers should never be used. At least one Hamas leader ignored that and said that people are adults from 16 (so kind of akin to the UK) but he died 21 years ago which might account for the lack of recent reports. Completely wrong and abhorrent of the Hamas leaders who did use older children as militants but as the last person doing it died 21 years ago I don’t believe it relates in anyway to the children currently being abused, starved and tortured in Israeli jails.

There have been NO reports of armed children in the current genocide. A huge number of children in prison have not been charged and those that have been charged have mostly been charged with throwing stones at fully grown ARMED adults. Please do not try to justify the imprisonment of children as legitimate on a site for mothers, it is abhorrent. For the record my husband is sporting a gash from a thrown cup by my toddler and I witnessed many kids throwing stones as a child - none were starved, tortured or imprisoned for months!

Israel have been cited as abusing children by using them as human shields and torturing children to get them to agree to be informants for the last few decades!
https://www.refworld.org/reference/annualreport/cscoal/2004/en/64756

Each year the Israeli military detains and prosecutes between 500 to 700 Palestinian children in Israeli military courts that lack basic safeguards for a fair trial. From the moment of arrest, Palestinian children encounter ill-treatment and torture at the hands of Israeli forces. Despite the fact that international norms reaffirm that civilians, including children, must never be brought before military courts, Israel persists in being the only country in the world to automatically and systematically prosecute children in military courts.

Comparing the system in the UK to the Israeli military courts is like comparing apples and oranges isn't it?

• Palestinian children detained and prosecuted by Israeli forces in the Israeli military detention and court system are denied the right to a fair hearing by a competent, independent, and impartial tribunal.
• Israeli authorities systematically arrest Palestinian children from the occupied West Bank without any attempt to issue arrest warrants that would establish a legal basis for the detentions.
• Israeli authorities overwhelmingly fail to explain or inform the Palestinian child or their family of the reasons for an arrest.
• Israeli forces and authorities’ systematically deny Palestinian children their right to prompt access to legal assistance and the presence of a family member during interrogation.
• Israeli forces and authorities’ systemic non-observance of the obligatory and absolute prohibition against torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment constitutes arbitrary detention.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/arbitrary-default-palestinian-children-israeli-military-court-system

I have to say as well that I find it fascinating that people who I presume are British women feel compelled to defend a system that denies children their rights and leads to their torture and sexual assault. Just why? What is it about hearing about the appalling treatment of Palestinian children that makes you jump in to defend it? Is it just the torture of Palestinian kids that you defend or do you do this for all kids too like UNICEF in reverse?

Israel is the only country in the world that automatically prosecutes children in military courts and does so while denying them lawyers, family presence, and protection from torture. It’s a documented, systemic abuse of children’s rights.

I find it fascinating that anyone would defend this

I think we all know why

Why?

Do tell.

Former US state department employee, Josh Paul (who resigned last year) talking about the credible reports of a 13 year old Palestinian boy who was raped whilst detained by Israel.

When the State Department asked the Israeli government to explain/investigate they reacted by closing down the offices of the charity that reported this to the State Department.

Unrelated but also currently causing controversy and disgust in America, an Israeli official was caught trying to arrange to meet a 15 year old girl to abuse. Instead if having his passport taken he was allowed to return to Israel.

"A top cybersecurity official for the Israeli government was arrested in Nevada during an undercover operation targeting child sex predators.
Tom Alexandrovich was apprehended and faced felony charges of “Luring a Child with Computer for Sex Act,” according to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, which assisted in conducting the operation from nearby Henderson, Nevada."

https://www.mediaite.com/crime/israeli-official-arrested-in-nevada-child-sex-operation-is-released-and-back-in-israel/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/16/nevada-arrest-israeli-official

I have to say as well that I find it fascinating that people who I presume are British women feel compelled to defend a system that denies children their rights '

Who is defending it? Rather pointing out other countries do things very differently to us. You yourself said 'Comparing the system in the UK to the Israeli military courts is like comparing apples and oranges isn't it?'. Which is it, compare or don't compare?

Whichever prisoners are detained is not the same as terrorists committing atrocities, abducting innocent men women and children then starving and torturing them.

Prisoners are not hostages. That's maybe one for my next placard.

The problem is calling them prisoners legitimises Israel holding people without charge for far longer than necessary