UEFA have finally taken a stand

[LifeOfAShowGirl]

https://x.com/uefa/status/1955706670824235327?s=46

A mild, late, spineless stand. But a stand. It makes me wonder how much longer this can go on before governments realise people are fed up of this.

Protestors don't need to see things through Hamas eyes (or anyone) they should be protesting for what they believe is right.

To anyone who doesn't see things through the eyes of Hamas the demands can only be reasonable.

Personally I don’t see his demands as reasonable because he’s broken the last two ceasefires. He shouldn’t get the upper hand at the negotiating table of “do what I say or I’ll kill the population of Gaza”, he should be negotiating. I do agree that Hamas needs to leave, but whatever would come in its place will also be a disaster, because he’s just going to continue isn’t he?

Whether the demands are reasonable or not though is a different question than whether you trust Netanyahu or not. You might answer:

Are the demands reasonable - Yes
Do I trust Netanyahu - No.

Will he release his hostages as part of the deal?

He doesn't have hostages, he has prisoners as you well know. Whatever though, hostages are irrelevant you announced earlier.

If you think the Israeli hostages are key to the deal, so are the Palestinian hostages

Prisoners. Palestinian prisoners.

So you are backtracking and saying hostages are relevant. Well done.

Aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime?

Depends on the respective law. If they pose a threat, detaining them might be the only option.

While this is legal under Israeli law (funnily enough it’s a military power, commonly used against West Bank citizens and their detention is reviewed in secret), under article 9 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (to which Israel is a signatory):

Article 9(1) states: “Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention.”
Article 9(2) guarantees that anyone arrested must be informed promptly of the reasons and be brought before a judge.

This started way before October 7.

You want to hear how Saudi does law.

Granted, they aren't Israelis so the outrage won't be there. Middle Eastern countries a law unto themselves justice wise but I think we can all agree that actually abducting innocent people and keeping them starved in tunnels as hamas do is a step too far to say the least.

Yeh small children throwing stones in a real threat against soldiers with guns.

Yes abducting people, torturing and starving them in overcrowded scabies infested prison cells is far more civilised.

This is why there’s no point even trying to engage. Nobody here has mentioned Saudi Arabia or praised them but you act like because Israel is being criticised we agree with much worse?!

You aren't there, to see the full picture, are you?

Danger, in what world do you genuinely think young children can ever, EVER, be detained?

You keep saying you won't engage yet quote me. Why? Just don't engage with me if you’re struggling.

It is context that justice in Middle Eastern countries is very different to our country as a pp had said 'Aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime?'

However abducting hundreds of innocent people and keeping them starved in tunnels thankfully is frowned upon.

Is keeping people including children in prison without charge, sexually assaulting them, torturing them and starving them generally not frowned upon where you are from then or what point are you trying to make?

Others do it too isn't really considered a great defence.

You said 'aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime' I said different countries do things differently and gave Saudi as an example, a country that does far worse yet isn't Israel so none of the keffiyeh wearers care.

Abducting innocent people from their homes and torturing them for 2yrs after carrying out multiple atrocities is not the same by a long shot.

So you admit Israel’s human rights are as bad as Saudis? As no one here is defending Saudi.

Only one of those countries is the ‘only democracy in the Middle East’.

No. As I've already explained a pp said is it ok to keep prisoners without charge. I pointed out that many places do.

That is not comparable to committing atrocities, abducting hundreds and keeping them as hostages starved in tunnels.

Is it okay though? To keep people without charge, sexually assault them, starve them, torture them? If you were taken off the street, held without charge, starved, tortured and sexually assaulted in a prison with no idea when or if you would get out would you think oh well this is nothing in comparison to the same being done in a tunnel?

You are allowed to criticise some things that the Israeli government and IDF do you know. It doesn't suddenly make you a terrorist supporter or even a supporter of Palestinians.

Not holding my breath.

Well you could debate other countries judiciary systems if you like, perhaps start another thread? For example i dont think capital punishment is 'ok' but many countries do this, however I certainly wouldn't liken capital punishment to rounding innocents up and murdering them in cold blood, would you?!

The point is many other countries do detain prisoners without charge and I've helpfully given an example.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record but as a pp seems not to have grasped this <and has posted a funny tumble weed gif > different judiciary systems is a world away from terrorists committing mass atrocities, abducting hundreds of innocent men, women and children from their homes torturing them and keeping them hostage in appalling conditions.

We all know that even the poster with the very hilarious gif.