Israeli cleric Rabbi Ronen Shaulov calls for the starvation of all civilians in Gaza

[TulipLavender]

https://youtube.com/shorts/RFFcB8mEabs?si=Fo30dm4_Qy2sLjhP

He says every child in Gaza should starve to death.

That's not what I'm saying. But I think the focus of the protests needs to shift. Queers for Palestine etc. Such naivity. Starmer has now promised a terrorist group their own state. This is in direct response to the protests. Hamas are laughing at us and have thanked Starmer and the rest for their support.

Yet again the thread is derailed by pro-Israeli respondents who refuse to accept the slightest degree of accountability on the side of Israel for inculcating hatred of Palestinians and genocidal incitement.

Instead a deflection of all the blame onto the population that has been occupied for decades and is currently BEING annihilated.

If radicalism of Gazans is the concern (which I'm not disputing but i haven't seen direct evidence of) then wouldn't the billions and billions of dollars spent on blowing the whole place to smithereens with them inside it, destroying the entire healthcare and humanitarian system and preventing food and medicine getting in so they starve to death (all the while blaming them for it) have been better spent towards programmes aimed at de-radicalisation whilst negotiating for release of hostages.

Is Israel really making Jews safer? because setting up right next to a death cult, and not properly engaging in a meaningful and responsible sense with a peace process, doesnt sound like it makes Israel a very safe place to live, particularly psychologically.

I am often troubled by aspects the protests, but think their focus must firmly be directed as the Israeli government (though the US is another worthy target).

That's not to downplay Hamas's culpability, just that there's no point Westerners protesting them.

I'm behind Starmer's approach on recognition, but I'm not going to rehash it here as its covered in the UK to recognise Palestine as a state in September thread.

Why must the protests be directed as Israel? Hamas have caused this. Why are people so fearful to say this?

I think you'd do well to read up on radicalization in Gaza. For example, a large majority supported Oct 7.

(A caveat that the accuracy of polling out of Gaza needs to be taken with a pinch of salt).

But you touch on one of my big concerns - unless the endgame is genocide or ethnic cleansing, Israel's current course seems to make little long-term sense.

Hamas have not caused ‘this’ alone.

It would be like the U.S systematically destroying Afghanistan after 9/11 and trying to exile all Afghans and replace them with Americans. And then arguing that Al Qaeda caused it all.

Many jews (and I am one, albeit not religious) seem to have either lost sight of, or are happy to ignore, the current theocratic and racist nature of the Israeli government. Netanyahu made a Faustian pact with the Otzma Yehudit party who consist of open racists who believe in the literal truth of ‘chosen people’ and ‘promised land’.

Too many Jews I know, who know little about Israel and have never visited (I have , albeit long ago) praise Israel’s actions uncritically, unaware that there is actually a strong debate within Israel about genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Israel needed to respond to 7/10 and Hamas (at least the senior structure and members) did need to be neutralised and destroyed as an organisation. But regime change could have been brought about more effectively, international partners, including Arab nations, could have been brought on side, and a proper deradicalisation programme could have been enacted.

Finally, what is going on in Gaza is heavily contested, which is why journalists need to be allowed in, as they have been in every war since Vietnam. If Israel isn’t starving civilians, if it is all a lie, shine the spotlight of the media upon it.

I just want to send love, and reassure you that I'm full of empathy for ordinary Jewish people who are just living their lives and not supporting the genocide, which I'm sure is most.
I'm utterly beyond horrified by what's happening in Gaza. But, I don't think 'the Jews' are guilty in any way. The guilty people are the individuals responsible, as well as world leaders (mostly not Jewish) and those condoning it directly such as the vile rabbi featured in this thread. I know many rabbis have spoken out against the genocide.
I don't have a Jewish background. But, I do have a Northern Irish protestant background, and I do find the strong bias and resolute denial of some Zionists quite relatable. Fortunately I come from a non-sectarian family, and a fairly integrated rural area. I've also lived in England now for many years. But, I do know some people who can absolutely only see one side, and whose hurt (especially those very affected during the troubles) blinds them them to some truths about the way Catholics were treated as second class citizens for many years. It doesn't make them bad people, just that they have tunnel vision, due to hurt and fear.
I can imagine for some Jewish people that bias and denial would be magnified dramatically, especially for descendants of Holocaust survivors. It's completely understandable after so much persecution.
It's actually the thing I find so sad about Israel/Palestine. Two groups of people who've both suffered immensely. I feel very sorry for innocents on both sides.
Thank you for your humanity ❤️
We're all humans. Equally important. You get nice and not-so-nice people of all faiths and none. Praying for peace and the end of this horror 🙏😔

Agreed. I think it's an unhelpful slogan, and it would be better if neither side used it. It shows a lack of commitment to a 2 state solution. I think the should be more emphasis in the media though on Israel's current stance, which is to fight, rather than work towards a 2 state solution. By current, I mean the last 20 years, not just since 7/10.

There needs to be a change in government from both sides to a more moderate position. The fact that there's clearly genocidal rhetoric coming from the mouths of prominent Israel politicians, and the international community still acts as if they want peace, is bonkers to me.

Yes Hamas have said they'd do it again, and that is evil. The Israeli government have threatened to drop nukes, talked about starving the population being justifiable, and that they need to find ways more painful than starvation to kill people. So why do we only hear about one side beeping extremest

Trawling through and wondering what the pro Israeli comments would be
I see there aren’t any at all in terms of the thread subject. Just derailing …. again !

Disgusted by the articles you’ve posted but not surprised. We’ve been seeing radicalised hate speech from the beginning. What shocks me is very few countries, including our own, have been prepared to see through these for what they really are

They, and all his supporters, preferred to hide behind Netanyahu and allow him to carry on with genocide regardless of his Governments despicable hate crimes.

Anyone Who thinks these words and actions are justifiable need to step back and have a long hard look at themselves. Shame on them!

Interesting that this thread concerns itself with Israeli calls for death. When it's the other way round, you don't see the same outrage. In fact, you see plenty of doubt that those calls for death even exist.

@Dangermoo do you think what the Rabbi and the different politicians have said is acceptable?

Shame on anyone, who believes from the River to the Sea doesn't mean the eradication of Jews.

Are you seriously saying pro Israel threads are never derailed? Pull the other one.

No, I don't think any calls for death are acceptable.

The thread subject is quite clear. The evidence is there for all to see.

Mumsnet won’t stop you starting a thread on what you’d like to talk about.

I'm not disputing the evidence, I'm highlighting hypocrisy.

Derailing. Again. Any thoughts on @Martymcfly24 s question on the actual thread subject

Are you saying hate only runs one way in this conflict?

Honestly Danger if you’re not prepared to discuss the actual thread subject there’s no point.
I’m not feeding the derail.

start your own thread and I might pop over

It's like a gotcha when this sort of thing gets exposed. Stop the press, even religious people are full of hate. It's perfectly relevant to point out that death chants work both ways. I'm sure you would be coming from the same angle on my thread, which I have no intention of starting. He's a dick for what he said, for two reasons. 1. It's plain wrong to wish starvation on anyone. 2. He's given those obsessed with Israel more ammunition.

Author Jewish
Convicted of withholding evidence from Congress
Supported the Iraqi war

as an aside - The article dated March this year says the curriculum is still being taught in schools today.
What schools!!!

Not a realiable source = Biased article.

Neither will just getting rid of Hamas stop the genocide
Netanyahu and all his followers in Government also need to go
That much is very obvious from just this thread subject alone. These people have no place in positions of power.

The right way to respond- I commend you @Echobelly

It’s a tragedy. Where will Israel be after Netanyahu decides this hideous war served its purpose. He and all the Israelis will be bound in to being extreme. It will become a theocracy in all but name. Not that they will much care what a few Europeans think of them. But it will change their society for the worse.

This is my fear - Netanyahu was already moving towards being more selective on who they allowed to be considered Jewish before all this kicked off. I can see it becoming a place where only aggressive nationalists are permitted if it doesn't change direction.