Israeli cleric Rabbi Ronen Shaulov calls for the starvation of all civilians in Gaza

[TulipLavender]

https://youtube.com/shorts/RFFcB8mEabs?si=Fo30dm4_Qy2sLjhP

He says every child in Gaza should starve to death.

What about the ruling Likud party having the 'river to the sea' phrase as part of their constitution? Or is ok when Israel use it to try to deny Palestine a future?

Why are you criticising only one side for using this phrase when it is the policy of both?

I wrote a big response but it got lost so quickly in response.

My previous post was poorly worded and i apologise. I didn't mean to suggest that there is one 'israeli mindset'. Of course that is wrong and vile.

However i do think that there is countless examples of isrealis demonstrating a mindset that has been indoctrinated to hate Palestinians and want their death or expulsion (Google Gemini agrees that there is evidence - ask it).
Im kind of shocked that you could deny an indoctrination of people in Israel hasnt been taking place which dehumanises Palestinians and encourages hatred and genocide of them.

I absolutely think there is a calculated and systematic effort to indoctrinate - i dont believe israelis are by nature or born hateful but i think a state cannot occupy and subjugate millions of people for decades without systems of indoctrination - education, media, military culture etc.
I also think many states indoctrinate their populations - the US is an obvious and prime example.

A survey by the Hebrew University's aChord Center found that 64% of Israelis believe there are "no innocents" in Gaza. This sentiment was even higher among supporters of the ruling coalition (87%). Another poll showed that when asked about the "level of humanity" of the other side, Jewish Israelis gave Palestinians an average score of 14 out of 100, and 51% gave a score of zero.
To me, that speaks for itself as to the indoctrination of Israeli society.

However of course there are many in Israeli society who are not hateful towards Palestinians - i wish that they were able to have a greater voice and influence. I dont think what is happening in Gaza now would be allowed if that was the case.

Side note - naming places after terrorists - Menachem Begin Road in Tel Aviv - prime example.

I'm criticizing Western protestors for using it. Ditto "globalize the Intifada", or expressions of anti-zionism (in the UK, usually rooted in the British left using the word "Zionism" to mean only more extreme strands of it).

I am criticizing it because I believe it feeds into a reinforces extremist sentiment is Israel, and thus is counter-productive when the aim is to alleviate Palestinian suffering.

If you want to read me criticize the Israeli Government, feel free to run an advance search of my name.

I don't need to ruin an AS, I'd like you to show as much condemnation for the current government having the same mantra.

Okay - I'll play along in the hope that we can turn this into something constructive.

Yes - I condemn it. It amounts to am endorsement of the ongoing denial of Palestinian self-determination, and is contrary to the possibility of a two-state solution (which I remain convinced is likely the most achievable solution). It, additionally, implies the complete annexation of Gaza and the West Bank.

So, with that hoop duly jumped through, do you think its responsible or helpful for Western protestors to echo similar rhetoric, in the opposite direction?

I'd argue - strongly - for favoring language that does not deny either group's right to self determination (though that does not mean Israel's current government cannot be condemned in duly strong terms).

Still waiting for the thread about that poor poor hostage - literally starving to death and having to dig his own grave. The world is silent.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5384572-why-has-msm-not-reported-on-the-condition-of-the-israeli-hostages

This one?

So after the horrific atrocities of Oct 7th, deliberately carried out to cause as much pain, terror, horror and humiliation as possible on Israelis, international visitors and the country as a whole, you seriously expect them to have a positive or even neutral view of Palestinians?

Israelis who’ve lived with:

-constant terror attacks
-Palestinians hijacking their planes,
-bombing pizza parlours and nightclubs and shopping malls,
-shooting dead bus fulls of civilians, including kids,
-car rammings
-stabbing rampages
-murdering teenagers and dumping their bodies by the side of the road,
-slaughtering whole families in their beds (that was before Oct 7th),

Who know much more about Palestinian society, TV programs that glorify murdering Jews, the indoctrination of Palestinian children and the terrorist training camps set up for them in Gaza, than you?

Who live with the knowledge that they have wanted to annihilate them and wipe them out for 80 years?

Who have to have to bomb shelters in every home and in public places under Israeli law, who have had to live with sirens going off for decades due to Palestinian rockets being fired indiscriminately into their country, who have only prevented thousands of deaths from to the aforementioned rockets by having to spend billions in developing and implementing and operating defence systems?

Are you fucking insane?

Do you think that children in Gaza, including those who weren't even born until after October 7th, are guilty by virtue of being born there?

If not, you might recognize that polling (from an Israeli university, nonetheless) that suggests around two-thirds of Israelis do not view a single person in Gaza as "innocent" crosses the threshold of "an understandable and proportionate response to trauma and future threats of violence" into the type of radical, racist extremism that is used to justify genocides.

Incidentally, the 64% figure would be closer to 80% if you excluded Palestinian Israelis from the poll's results.

I understand well enough that the Gazan population is highly radicalized, and that presents a near insurmountable obstacle to peace.

But, the second people start believing that there is no such thing as an innocence Gazan - that children are guilty from birth - then they simply become the other side of the coin.

Yet not a single Gazan has given up a location of where the hostages are being held.

Children.

You are the one who is clearly fucking insane.

Do you think that every Gazan, including children too young to walk or talk, know where the hostages are, and are able to safely relay that information to Israel?

www.cfr.org/blog/palestinian-authority-continues-teach-hate-and-reward-terror-0

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-06-30/debates/E477230F-58A0-4C3F-A6C5-43F42D330043/PalestinianSchoolTextbooksEUReview

Well documented. And well before 2023

No but their families do. As a mum I would do anything I could to get my child away from this cult.

And I haven't denied it (in fact, I noted that the populace is highly radicalized) but I'm not sure how it's relevant.

Do you believe there are any innocent people - of any age - in Gaza?

Yes I do. There are people protesting against Hamas and subsequently being slaughtered by Hamas, but their cries are ignored by the West as it doesn't fit the narrative.

Good, glad you believe that - had me worried there.

I'm not sure in what way the West are ignoring those protests though?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

That's one article. This has been going on for months. My frustration is more at the marches - why are people not supporting these anti Hamas protesters in Gaza? Get rid of Hamas and the war is over.

There are other articles, I could post a lot more but it doesnt seem helpful - feel free to google around.

And, if you think that Hamas would go "gosh, a lot of the European and American protestors really don't like what we're doing, best call it a day" I think your naivety is showing.