Israeli cleric Rabbi Ronen Shaulov calls for the starvation of all civilians in Gaza

[TulipLavender]

https://youtube.com/shorts/RFFcB8mEabs?si=Fo30dm4_Qy2sLjhP

He says every child in Gaza should starve to death.

I know it's like stalking a post looking for something to criticize but not actually engaging with the subject of the thread about the vile incitements said by people in power in Israel.

I presume that we will now hear their feelings on the first few posts.

No. Stop.

There is no "indoctrination on both sides".

You shared a video of one Israeli making hateful remarks and used it to generalise about the entire mindset of Israelis - claiming they're indoctrinated to want the death of all Palestinians.

I responded with systemic, institutional, and documented examples - across education, government, and media - of Palestinian indoctrination to hate and kill Jews.

Not one-off fringe cases or an independent movement of arseholes. Not anecdotal.

Structural, repeated, and internationally condemned.

And now your response is, “well both sides…”?

You don’t get to smear an entire people based on a YouTube clip, then retreat to false moral symmetry when confronted with overwhelming evidence showing that the hatred is state-sponsored, widespread, and targeted in one direction.

You made a claim. I not only disproved it, but showed incontrovertible evidence that actually the opposite is true and Palestinians are the ones "indoctrinated"

So what's the point of this phony thread? To post an obvious, demonstrable lie in order to demonise Israel for something Palestine is doing?

The handful of people here doing this are deeply disturbing to me. Id like to think only a very small minority of human beings behave like this but i look around me and worry they are not.

What was it Goebells said? Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it? I can see now that not only is that true, but that people will lie obsessively to themselves in order to justify their own hate.

It's absolutely horrifying and I'm walking away from this thread now because it's obvious you're here to make up nonsense accusing jews Israel of things which are exactly what the side you're supporting is doing and has proudly been doing.

The dishonesty is so disgusting

3000 years of this. Honestly, they have the patience and tolerance of saints!

Unfortunately, ive seen enough social media evidence showing hundreds and hundreds of Israelis openly calling for the death of Palestinians and media channels openly call for the death of Palestinians (even the right to rape Palestinian prisoners) that i know for a fact that there is a strong indoctrination of hatred of Israelis against Palestinians. If you want all of the evidence it can be shared here over the next few days and weeks.

After @TulipLavender . There is a video from today of Ben Gvir leading 1250 settler to the Al Asqa mosque to pray breaching decades old peace agreement .

Videos of Israelis stamping on aid that should have gone into Gaza and stopping the trucks.

Social media videos of Israelis mocking Palestinians.https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy4TNbxBFIj/?igsh=NWtmNTI2b3FrY2Vh

As you said the evidence is there.

I completely see and understand that. Some of the most shocking posts sometimes turn out to be people who seem convinced we are calling for their death.

I actually didn’t believe you about the congressman. But yes they did. What’s wrong with the people voting for this kind of of person?

No. You stop! You dont get to DARVO.
It is an incontravertable fact that Israel are the occupiers in this conflict and have been for decades. Also undisputable is that the overwhelming majority of deaths have been Palestinian.

You shared some points about the Palestinian education system of which i was not aware and i accepted that they werent acceptable. You didnt disprove anything.

Let me now share the work of a distinguished Israeli academic Nurit Peled El-halan who has conducted extensive research and published a couple of books setting out very clearly how the Israeli education system represents Palestinians in a racist manner designed to continue the occupation

• Palestinians depicted almost always as refugees, peasants or terrorists. Represents them as primitive, evil or superfluous. Often referring to them as 'arabs'. This isn't anecdotal, it's rigorously researched and evidenced.

• For example - Geography lessons on the 'inhibitors' of the 'arab' village will reference how they are not exposed to modern life, objects to changes by nature. Palestinians are presented as demographic threat.

• They compare the numbers of Arabs versus Jews all the time in the schoolbooks, in every subject, especially multiplication. Schoolbooks refer to Palestinians as Israel’s Arabs or the non-Jewish sector.
• You never find the label Palestinian except when attached to terror. The Bedouin community, for example — the Bedouin tribes that have been on the land for thousands of years — are called the Bedouin diaspora, to give the impression that they don’t belong.

• The maps in schoolbooks completely ignore the existence of Palestine and Palestinians. Even in a map that shows the Arab population, you don’t find one Arab city, not even Nazareth.

• They justify racist laws, such as the law of citizenship, which does not allow a couple — one of which is an Israeli citizen, and one of which comes from the occupied territories — to live together. They justify this kind of racist and illegal and unconstitutional law by quoting the former president of Israel’s Supreme Court, who said Palestinians’ “human rights shouldn’t be a recipe for national suicide"

These are all points from the rigorously researched and evidenced academic work of Israeli Nurit Peled ElHanan.

Here is a video of a whole school hall full of Israeli school children harrassing a Palestinian classmate by singing 'May your villages burn' - horrifying but that only comes from taught behaviour:

Another older video showing interviews with children; talking about becoming soldiers and killing 'arabs':

500 statements showing Israeli incitement of violence and genocide have been collected by the Law for Palestine and are presented in a database showing statements made by the Army, Government, Legislators, Journalists in Israel. https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/

There are extremists on both sides.

Proportionately, there are far more of them* *among Palestinians than Jewish Israelis.

A problem at the moment is that the extremists on the Jewish Israeli side appear to have disproportionate influence on Israeli government policy, which is of particular relevance given the mismatch in military strength.

And I do think Volox rightly highlights that Palestinian Solidarity protests around the world that persistently use inflammatory language (that could reasonably be understood as support for genocide, ethnic cleaning and/or general widespread violence against Jewish people) inflame matters, and that their extreme rhetoric (even if they profess not to mean it) only serves to entrench or create new extremists on the Israeli side.

All to say, there is plenty of blame to go around, and it ought not be a competition.

It's disgusting, isn't it. I'm not condoning Israel's behaviour either, but the pro Palestine people are in denial.

Palestinian Solidarity protests around the world that persistently use inflammatory language (that could reasonably be understood as support for genocide, ethnic cleaning and/or general widespread violence against Jewish people) inflame matters, and that their extreme rhetoric (even if they profess not to mean it) only serves to entrench or create new extremists on the Israeli side.

I completely agree with you here even for a slightly different reason thought I have myself taken part in solidarity events and protests. But I do think more care should have been taken with language. People find phrases like “from the river to the sea” inflammatory. And by continuing to use them, the pro Palestinian movement has made it difficult for Jewish people to feel included - although they are involved - I feel more would get involved. I also feel like more engagement should have been undertaken with pro Palestinian rights movements from within Israel, they felt alienated. So I absolutely agree that Palestinian movement could be done better and could be more strategic.

“All to say, there is plenty of blame to go around, and it ought not be a competition.”

If it were a competition, Israel’s currently in the lead- with 17,000 children killed, aid blocked, and famine engineered in real time.

But sure, let’s keep debating tone at protests.

💯- if it were a competition of awfulness Israel is coming out top.

But peace movements are important I believe. In fact there is research that shows that non violent movements have been more successful overall than violent movements. And I think we can always learn how to do things better.

Some of the Pro-Palestinian people around the world are worse than in denial, they actively harm their own cause by adopting the rhetoric of Hamas, and actually are often more extreme than Hamas's currently-stated position on a peace process (Hamas having indicated support for a 2-state peace process, where many Western "Palestinian-Solidarity" folks tend to argue for Israel's destruction - not that I believe Hamas would actually stop at a peaceful 2 state existence...)

If you'd like to feel immensely frustrated, here are 20 protestors (most with no connection to Palestine) "debating" with a moderate Palestinian.

In short, he prioritizes peace and wellbeing of the Palestinian people, the Solidarity-folks are more up for a bloody and unwinnable armed resistance until Israel is no more.

You seem to be throwing around terms like “indoctrination” and “DARVO” without understanding either. Add irony to the list perhaps.

Let’s start with your original claim: that Israelis are indoctrinated to want the death of all Palestinians.

That’s not just accusing a few individuals of racism or bias. It’s an allegation of systematic, state-sponsored brainwashing to murder.

Indoctrination is not a synonym for “some people hold ugly views.”

It implies that:

The education system,

The media,

The political leadership,

The cultural norms

…are all working together to instil genocidal hatred in the entire population.

That’s what you accused Israel of.

You think YouTube clips of hateful Israelis are evidence. That’s anecdotal evidence of a fringe opinion, not proof of indoctrination.

If that’s your standard, then America is indoctrinating its citizens via neo-Nazi podcasts, far-right rallies, and YouTubers calling for race wars because SOME Americans are like that.

Now contrast this with what’s documented in Palestinian territories, particularly under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas:

Textbooks teaching martyrdom, jihad, and antisemitic conspiracy theories.

Children’s TV shows glorifying suicide bombers.

Schools, streets, and camps named after terrorists.

Official government budgets paying salaries to convicted murderers of civilians.

Public speeches celebrating the murder of Jews as holy acts.

That’s indoctrination.

As for your use of DARVO - “Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender” - that’s rich.

You claimed Israelis are indoctrinated to want genocide. I responded with hard data disproving that and showing exactly where indoctrination is happening.

And now you’re the one denying, attacking, and trying to reverse victim and offender. To be clear:

Palestinians are indoctrinated to hate Jews.
The reverse that you are claiming is a lie.

Indoctrination is not “some people hold nasty views.” Indoctrination is when hate is embedded in official systems - schools, media, politics, law.

There is no evidence Israel teaches children to hate Palestinians, let alone glorify killing them. It's an outlandish claim.

And yes, Palestinian media, leaders, and textbooks openly glorify murderers. That’s not my opinion - it’s documented by the EU, the UN, the US Congress, and multiple watchdogs. If you’d even bothered to look beyond your echo chamber, you’d know that.

Nurit Peled-Elhanan is a fringe academic whose work has been criticised across the board for cherry-picking and projecting her own ideology onto the entire Israeli education system. Even she doesn’t claim Israeli schools teach children to want Palestinians dead. She argues about representation - terms used, map borders, demographic framing. Is that a debate worth having? Sure. But don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by pretending it's equivalent to teaching 10-year-olds that blowing up Jews is godly.

If Israeli schools did what Palestinian ones do - taught kids to idolise murderers and dream of martyrdom - you’d never shut up about it. But because it’s Palestinians doing the indoctrinating, you blithely ignore it and come up with ridiculous slurs against an entire nation to make it look like the narrative is reversed.

Own it, retract it, or keep embarrassing yourself. Up to you.

I think rhetoric is important, particularly for those of us privileged enough to live in peaceful societies whose lives aren't the ones on the line. In fact I'd say that speaking with care, aimed at contributing to the prospects of peace, is a moral duty, and a better standard of solidarity.

And to clarify a few things since accuracy doesn’t seem to be your strong suit here:

First, I wasn’t the one who said the march was “peaceful”- I said mainstream coverage highlighted the peaceful nature and scale of the event. A pretty basic, verifiable statement.
Second, the “restored faith in humanity” line wasn’t mine either. That was someone else, and it was posted before your images. You’re twisting.

Third, I’ve consistently condemned antisemitism and extremism. If any of those flags or sweatshirts were genuinely present- and widely present, not isolated outliers- then I’d say so. But there’s a difference between condemning what might have happened in a tiny corner of a huge event, and declaring the entire march invalid because of it.

You seem more interested in catching people out than in engaging honestly.

Let’s be clear:

• No swastikas are acceptable.
• No calls for death are acceptable.
• No terror flags are acceptable.

No one here said otherwise. What I won’t do is let those (if present at all) be used to undermine the legitimacy of mass, peaceful protest- or deflect from the actual atrocities taking place in Gaza right now.

If you genuinely oppose hate and violence on all sides, great. So do I. But if you’re only outraged when it fits your narrative, that says more about your priorities than mine.

and so do bloody well I!

Sorry? What? I haven’t heard anyone arguing for “Israel’s destruction” on any of these, many threads.

The age-old tactic: discredit the global solidarity movement by cherry-picking a few fringe voices, while conveniently ignoring the massive, diverse, largely peaceful crowds calling for an end to ethnic cleansing, mass starvation, and the bombing of children.

Do some people say inflammatory or misguided things at protests? On every side of every conflict. But pretending these individuals represent the entire global movement is disingenuous and a distraction. It shifts focus away from the actual crisis- where nearly 2 million people are on the brink of famine and entire families are being wiped out.

As for Hamas “indicating support for a 2-state solution”- if a Western protestor quoted that exact line, they’d immediately be accused of naivety or supporting terrorists. You can’t use Hamas as both the moral benchmark and the justification for why Palestinians don’t deserve solidarity (pick a lane!)

This isn’t about denying complexity. It’s about refusing to let edge-case protestors or online outliers be weaponised to silence legitimate outrage at very real, very measurable, state-led atrocities.

And no- being outraged that babies (and people!) are starving in Gaza does not mean one supports Hamas.

No one at all has and I have read all these threads .

Same as Israels right to exist . That is not in doubt at all.

Well, why are you arguing with me then?

By focusing on "the competition" of which-is-worse, I think you're being drawn into unhelpful discourse.

To my mind, the better approach is to simply acknowledge shortcomings - that puts the onus on others to acknowledge shortcomings on their side.

Even if they refuse to acknowledge, that isn't necessarily unhelpful to the argument. Certain posters on here - in trying to deny that Israel have in any way contributed to the current starvation crisis (or have denied the crisis exists at all) - have probably hurt their cause far more than they have helped it.

I'm not talking about these threads, I'm talking about in protests.

"From the river to the sea", identifying as "Anti-Zionist" and that sort of stuff.

Yeah, I'm not going to bother responding to this. You are misrepresenting me (intentionally or not) and allowing myself to be drawn into dialogue with you on this point would be allowing further deflection from the topic of the thread, being the problem of Israeli extremism.

As someone who believes in Palestinian solidarity - but doing a better job of it - I'd be happy to discuss further with you by PM some other time.