Israeli cleric Rabbi Ronen Shaulov calls for the starvation of all civilians in Gaza

[TulipLavender]

https://youtube.com/shorts/RFFcB8mEabs?si=Fo30dm4_Qy2sLjhP

He says every child in Gaza should starve to death.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/former-idf-intel-chief-oct-7-was-much-deeper-than-an-intelligence-failure/amp/

Former military intelligence chief Aharon Haliva secret recordings, aired by Israeli channel 12, in which he says:

“The fact that there are already 50,000 dead in Gaza is necessary and required for future generations.”

“For everything that happened on October 7, for every person who was killed on October 7, 50 Palestinians must die,”

“I’m not speaking out of revenge, I’m speaking out of a message to future generations. There’s nothing to be done,” he charged.
“They need a Nakba every now and then to feel the price. There’s no choice, in this disturbed neighborhood.”

So the Chief of Israeli military security on Oct 7 says that Israel requires for its future the mass killing of Palestinian civilians. Israel requires ethnic cleansing of Palestinians for its existence and future survival.

Just read your update OP 😢
It's extremely distressing that some extremists in Israel think that, and don't recognise Palestinians as their fellow human beings with the equal worth they have. All people, whatever their race, nationality or religion have absolutely equal priceless worth, and all human life is equally sacred. It's obvious to most of us, but sadly some people (hopefully a tiny minority) haven't learnt that simple life lesson 😔

It's a terrible thing for him to have said and a terrible opinion for anyone to hold even privately. But he didn't say it as part of his role as Chief of Israeli military security so it seems that it was more his personal opinion.

We know that he wasn't the Chief of Israeli military security when he made these comments as they refer to "50,000 dead in Gaza" which didn't happen until March 2025 according to Hamas figures. He resigned in April 2024, saying he took responsibility for the failures before Hamas's attack on Israel on 7th October.

He acknowledged in a letter that his intelligence directorate "did not live up to the task we were entrusted to".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68873227

It's a terrible opinion for him to hold privately, but just as bad, definitely worse have been said publicly by members of Netanyahu's government, and Netenyahu himself.

Why are so many people choosing to ignore clearly genocidal statements by people in power in Israel? Especially when those statements are made at the heart of the government and not an infrequent basis.

If someone says who they are, shouldn't we believe them?

If someone says who they are, shouldn't we believe them?

If you use these same standards against Hamas then surely everyone should be supporting Israel in their quest to completely destroy Hamas, since they have pledged to kill all Jews in Israel (some leaders have publicly stated they want to kill all Jews worldwide).

Lots of voices are supporting the removal of Hamas though. The initial arab proposal, the New York declaration…the previous US administration, the ex security staff. They are all supporting Hamas being removed but they don’t think Israel is going to achieve that by their current actions.

I read the start of your comment and thought, “Ah, great, Twiglets is acknowledging how awful those comments are…” then came the ‘but’.

Even if he didn’t say it as Chief of Israeli Military Security, do you not think his personal opinion that Palestinians “need a Nakba every now and again” would have influenced his decision-making while he was in that role?

These aren’t beliefs someone develops overnight. If my child’s teacher privately said that all children are inherently evil and that physical punishment is a proportionate response to any misbehaviour, would it matter that they only voiced it after they’d taught my child? The underlying views still reflect on how they acted while in their position.

Removing Hamas doesn't seem to be the main focus of many people. There has been a reluctance (on MN as well as elsewhere) to blame Hamas as much as Israel.

How do people who disagree with Israel's war against Hamas think they will get rid of them? (swap war for genocide if you prefer, don't want to get mired in that debate again).

It's not that I like groups being at war, I very much don't. But I've yet to see a viable suggestion for how else Israel could rid Gaza of Hamas.

Personally, I hope Netanyahu accepts the latest ceasefire proposal and that as part of that deal, Hamas leaders agree to leave Gaza. But they definitely wouldn't have agreed those terms before the war escalated to this awful point, in fact they had rejected the same terms just last month.

Sorry, could you point me to evidence on MN that there’s “reluctance to blame Hamas”? I’ve consistently condemned Hamas and hold them accountable proportionally.

At the same time, I also hold Israel proportionally accountable for indiscriminate bombing, actively killing children and civilians, blocking essential aid including baby formula, cutting electricity to incubators, and bombing hospitals and ambulances. Both sets of actions deserve scrutiny.

I do wholeheartedly acknowledge how awful his comments are.

You know what a stickler I am for facts though. Just wanted to point out he had already resigned from post when he made those comments and it does not seem like he made them publicly but more in a private group. It doesn't excuse his opinions - and yes I imagine he privately held them since 7/10/23.

But this person's views don't represent the views of "Israel." And the wrath he expressed may have been partly influenced by the guilt he felt at the intelligence failings he took personally.

“But I've yet to see a viable suggestion for how else Israel could rid Gaza of Hamas”

Even if Israel wants to remove Hamas, the idea that this requires bombing civilians, starving children, and destroying hospitals is not only morally indefensible but also legally a war crime.

There are alternatives that could neutralise Hamas without harming innocent people: targeted arrests of leaders and fighters, intercepting weapons smuggling, cyber operations to disrupt militant networks, and negotiation or international pressure. Collective punishment of 2 million people cannot be justified as a strategy to “rid Gaza of Hamas.”

Precision strikes in other contexts- like Iran- show that indiscriminate bombing is a choice, not a necessity.

No I'm not going down a rabbit hole about that. When I write posts it is for everyone to read and consider not just you.

There are many examples on MN, such as the "but Hamas" crew who mock attempts to bring Hamas back into discussions. Some people prefer to pretend Israel are at war with Gazans than acknowledge they are at war with a terrorist group. Outside of MN we see protestors whose placards are almost exclusively aimed at blaming Israel rather than apportioning any blame to Hamas.

But ultimately, people can believe what they want to believe about whether they agree with me or not that there's a reluctance to blame Hamas, I'm not going to waste time digging out examples which won't change anyone's opinion anyway.

Precision strikes were an option in Iran because their military don't hide amongst civilians and underneath civilian buildings like Hamas do. They don't have miles of underground tunnels. But you know this.

I disagree. I would say that this persons views very much represent the views of those in power in Israel. Who do you think he felt comfortable sharing those views with?

A quick search comes up with several documented instances where Israeli public figures have made statements that have been widely interpreted as incitement to genocide or ethnic cleansing.

One can only imagine what they say behind closed doors if they’re comfortable sharing this with the public:

1. Bezalel Smotrich (Finance Minister): In April 2024, Smotrich stated, “There are no half measures… Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat – total annihilation. ‘Thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.’ There is no place for them under heaven.” The Israeli newspaper Haaretz described his comments as a call to genocide.
2. Nissim Vaturi (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): In January 2024, Vaturi reaffirmed his calls to “wipe Gaza off the face of the earth,” stating, “Gaza must be burned.” He added, “I stand behind my words.”
3. Statements by Israeli Officials, Soldiers, and Civil Society: A report by Al-Haq in January 2024 documented various statements by Israeli officials and soldiers that have been interpreted as incitement to genocide.
4. Yitzhak Kroizer (Otzma Yehudit Party): In a radio interview, Kroizer stated, “The Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death.”
5. Tally Gotliv (Likud Party): Gotliv demanded that Prime Minister Netanyahu use a nuclear bomb on Gaza for “strategic deterrence,” saying, “Before we consider inserting ground troops, doomsday weapon.”
6. Boaz Bismuth (Likud Party): Bismuth evoked the biblical massacre of the Amalek nation, stating, “It is forbidden to take mercy on the cruel, there’s no place for any humanitarian gestures,” referring to Gaza and adding, “The memory of Amalek must be erased.”
7. Zvi Yehezkeli (Journalist): Yehezkeli suggested on Channel 13 that Israel should have killed “many times 20,000 people,” stating, “[We] should have begun with a blow of 100,000.”
8. Yoav Gallant (Former Defence Minister): Gallant, in October 2023, stated, “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything.”
9. Amit Halevi (Likud Party): Halevi, in October 2023, suggested that Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom, and questioned the desire to treat every child and woman in Gaza, implying that distinctions between civilians and combatants should not exist.
10. Simcha Rothman (National Religious Party): Rothman, in response to a question about whether children are enemies, stated, “They [the children] are our enemies.”

the precision strike in Iran vs. Gaza

As already stated it's impossible for the IDF to do precision strikes in Gaza due to the way Hamas operate. Possible in Iran though.

If Israel is truly only at war with Hamas, why are civilians being killed? Why was that little girl targeted and killed by a drone while collecting water for her family? Why are essential supplies like baby formula and medical aid being blocked from entering Gaza? These are real, documented impacts on non-combatants- how does that square with being ‘at war with Hamas’ only?

And we’re not talking about isolated incidents or ‘technical errors’- this is mass evidence of indiscriminate targeting of civilians, including many children and babies.

This has all been discussed multiple times about civilians getting killed in every war, including children. There would have been no logical reason for the IDF to target this little girl though she was very unfortunately killed by one of their drones.

I'm not going to rehash old arguments over and over again as I know you like to do. It will be boring for me and for others reading this thread.

Exactly: there would have been no logical reason for the IDF to target this little girl, yet she was targeted and killed by one of their drones. And this is not an isolated case.

Why do you think that is?

Combined with statements from Netanyahu and other officials, what logical conclusion should we draw?

Sure, ‘civilians get killed in every war’- but we’re not talking about the unfortunate inevitability of conflict here. We’re talking about systematic, documented patterns of targeting, starvation, and destruction.

When thousands of children are killed, hospitals bombed, and aid blocked, it’s not an ‘unfortunate accident’ - it’s policy.

Sorry if the targeted killing of children and babies is ‘boring’ for you or for others, but this is the central reason why so many people are apoplectic about this crisis-

and one of the key reasons it will later be scrutinised as a war crime and crime against humanity.

No 'logical reason' for targeting a little girl unless your aim is to kill civilians - which is clearly the aim of the Israeli government and military.

The logical explanation is she was killed by accident like other civilians getting killed in wars. Living in a war zone, civilians will get killed but you insist they are “targeted” killings because they happen in Gaza.

Are none of the civilian deaths in other wars accidental in your view? Are they all targeted?

No it isn’t, they are at war with Hamas.

When logic flies out of the window, it’s time to take a break from MN as no point arguing with those who want to villainise Israel against all reason.

So on that note, I’m out.

I posted this on the other thread, but it’s relevant here too:

https://theconversation.com/gaza-we-analysed-a-year-of-satellite-images-to-map-the-scale-of-agricultural-destruction-248796

Satellite imagery shows that over two-thirds of Gaza’s cropland and almost 70% of greenhouses have been destroyed (and this was back in February).

This isn’t isolated ‘collateral damage’ - it’s widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure and food sources, which undermines the claim that blanket bombing is just targeting Hamas hiding in civilian buildings.

There is such criticism of Israel because we have seen time after time the deliberate targeting of civilians.

Hamas have been widely condemned for tge targeting of civilians. Ive not seen one poster say anything like, 'Hamas didn't mean to target civilians'. There is no debate - everyone agrees that they did and condemns it.

The reason for the constant criticism of Israel on this forum is that it is blatantly obvious that they have been targeting civilians (both directly through drones, sniper, tanks or indirectly through blockade and starvation).everytime anyone raises an example or a broad concern the pro-Israelis on here come on to deny, deflect or justify. Minimise or provide example of worse elsewhere - never have i heard any say - thats awful and shouldn’t have happened and needs to be stopped.

One example amongst hundreds - Hind Rajab - 300 plus bullets in her families car from an IDF tank - she was on the phone to the red cross who contacted the IDF for permission to get her. Her and the paramedics found killed.

Re starvation - I don't know about you but all the parents look very well fed. If it was my child they would have my food and I would "starve" before they feel any ill effects. Unfortunately all the pictures that have been posted of "starving children" have all come from other conflicts (Sudan etc), are children with congenital or medical issues (which mean they are malnourished despite eating an adequate amount of food), or produced by AI.

There are several Instagram accounts accessible to everyone showing fully stocked shops, markets and restaurants.

You are all Hamas' puppets for regurgitating their propaganda.