Many pro-Palestinians DO actually support Hamas

[ConscientiousObserver]

There I said it.

Obviously they won’t come out and admit it, for fear of exposing themselves as supporters of evil, and also because they worry that they may be traced as it is supposedly illegal to support Hamas, as a proscribed terrorist group.

The evidence is all there -

The blind belief in the blatant Hamas propaganda which defies sense and logic.

The demonising descriptive language used to describe Israel.

The insistence that a war Israel didn’t start justifies Israeli and Jewish people around the work being persecuted, attacked and even murdered.

The protests against Israel but not Hamas who actually started the war.

The complete lack of interest or outrage in the Israeli hostages who actually included children and and a baby.

The calls for immediate ceasefire since the war started with no calls for Hamas to surrender.

The complete lack of accountability for Hamas and Palestinians in general.

I cannot fathom that anyone with a sane mind would support evil, barbaric murderers and rapists who also actively want to get their own civilians killed, and kill them themselves, so can we assume that for these people, their hatred of Israel and the Jewish people is greater than their care for human life as a whole.

A genuine question.

What's your take on it?

Are you surprised that war can amplify voices that would otherwise remain fringe?

What I see on this thread is a lot of people trying to persuade themselves that they are on the right side of history. But the other 'side' are terrorist supporters, they are stupid, they are indoctrinated to hate Jews, we must be right.

Give it a few years, when the rubble is cleared it will finally sink in for you.

I've had a good look at and listen to what's happening in the middle east and north Africa in the last fifty years, had a good look at and listen to the UK over the same and I've drawn my conclusions.

Btw there is always rubble somewhere, it never truly clears, but for some reason it doesn't get so much attention.

This is interesting, and I'm sure mirrored in the UK. I often wonder what the age profile is of posters on the CITME threads.

www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

Why would I care what ‘side of history’ I’m on? I’ll be a long time dead and historical perspectives are always changing.

When I think I’m wrong about something I admit it to myself.

The CITME section of Mumsnet is basically " barbershop talk" online.

A place where people opine and put the world to rights without having any influence yay or nay on ninety nine percent of which they speak.
" Right side of history" is the secular version of " pray or else you won't go to heaven". With those who trumpet this phrase having the same flat eyed conviction that the religious often do that everybody lives their lives , or should through the same philosophical prism that they do.

Without realising how dramatic and unhinged they sound to people just doing what people have been doing since creation..without subscribing some dramatic arc to their activities.

No wonder so many of the younger are anxious about life if they are too busy wondering how they will be viewed after they are dead.

Somebody has to tell them that they will be forgotten and much quicker than they think. No matter how sanctified a life they have lead.

Gosh, if only you knew how many times I’ve questioned if I was in the right side, that I must have been missing something that the pro-Palestinians knew and I didn’t, but further research just proved again and again that my judgement was right.

I think when the rubble has cleared and the truth comes out. nothing will change sadly, the pro-Palestinians will refuse to believe it because then what will their cause have been for, how stupid will they look!

At least both the Palestinians and Israelis will be safer with Hamas destroyed so I only hope for that and the hostages to be released to their families.

You don't have to agree with me. Like I said it's just an observation that this thread reads like posters desperately trying to reassure each other and themselves that they are righteous.

Agreed.

Plus I will never think I was on the wrong side for sticking up for Israel after 7/10 or for wondering why their government & army are supposed to be so moral whereas Hamas are "just Hamas... we can't expect anything from them."

Or for wondering why people don't care a little bit more about how pro Palestinian protests affect Jewish people if there are people there chanting anti Israel slogans or with anti Israel banners. I know it isn't everyone and most protestors are peaceful but there always seems to be that racist element, such as at the most recent big protest in Sydney.

Doesn't mean I have to agree with everything Netanyahu says or his army does. But I do believe Israel are justified in being in a war with Hamas. I don't see that they have any real alternative than to keep fighting until Hamas agree to hand over their weapons and release the hostages.

Maybe dig a bit deeper into that feeling- sometimes what feels like the ‘right side’ isn’t so simple.

I really struggle to see how the murder of over 17,000 children and the forced starvation of nearly 2 million people can be called the ‘right judgement.’ How can you say they will be safer, when the reality is there may be virtually no Palestinians left. Their homes and lands are being decimated, and Israeli settlers are already moving in as we speak.

There’s a lot to unpack beneath the surface of this conflict, and I hope we all keep questioning what we think we know.

@GladioliGreen being "righteous" is not something I aspire to in any area of my life. It sounds religious and I'm not so I couldn't care less about that.

“The right judgement”
”justified”

Haha, that sounds religious so it couldn't possibly be me, could it?! Redefining words to reassure yourself that no, that's not what you are doing is hilarious. Good for you!!

I'm not opening images with "sensitive content". I don't need to see upsetting things to know that civilians are dying in Gaza including babies and children.

Everyone posting on here already knows what happens in wars generally and what is happening in this one specifically. It would be nice if people were allowed to debate politely without attempts to stop debate with shocking images. Because it's not like civilians dying didn't happen on 7/10 either and it's not like hostages haven't been abused and killed but we don't need to keep posting images about that either.

I don't claim to be righteous - and in my heart I don't think anyone else is either. But I do claim to be a good, moral person

Israel are committing war crimes withholding food and water.

There’s nothing to debate about that.

Then look at what Israel are doing- really look.

Nearly 2 million people being starved in a man-made famine.
Babies unnecessarily starving to death. Children becoming literal skin and bones, losing their hair.

”the right judgement”
”justified”

oh, but what was it someone said before:
“What is it with pro-Palestinians in that the moment you try and have a measured conversation about why we are where we are,
they churn out a punchy statement about killing babies?”

They deny that they are withholding aid though, they say aid has always been there but the UN refused to deliver it until they introduced the tactical pauses in fighting and aid corridors to make delivery safer for the UN & other agencies. Plus they introduced the aid distribution sites and now there are daily air drops with aid coming in from many countries.

Obviously some food and water has been getting into Gaza throughout the nearly 2 years of war or there would be many more deaths than there have been. You will say there hasn't been enough aid getting in and still isn't - and I agree with you on that point.

But it's not true to say there's "nothing to debate" about Israel committing war crimes - by which I assume you mean Netanyahu and some of his ministers. Their actions will be assessed after the war and yes, possibly some individuals (not "Israel") will be found guilty of committing war crimes. But that is not for you to decide, it will be decided by a court of law.

Please refrain from lecturing me about what to look at. I look at everything, I see both sides whereas it seems to me you only ever see the actions of one side.

You can't make people think a certain way, which is why I don't tell you to take a wider look at what has happened and why Israel act the way they do.

All the (many) people you lecture on this site and the statistics you keep throwing out don't make any difference to the war in Gaza.

It’s a fucking war.

Civilians die, they even starve, in every fucking war, just as they are in Sudan right now.

Do I believe Israel has deliberately ‘murdered’ and ‘starved’ Palestinians. Absolutely not. There is no sense or logic for them to do that. They are a super power on the world stage and are fighting for survival. Why would they deliberately sabotage their own country by turning the whole world against them? Although Hamas did that very successfully anyway with the massive help of people incapable of a very simple game of ‘join the dots’ because they wanted to believe it.

Do I believe civilians have been killed and are being deliberately deprived of food. Absolutely yes. This is the longstanding MO of deliberately endangering civilians and using them as human sacrifices, of Hamas and the PLO. Their only real weapon is propaganda. It makes perfect sense and logic to THEM to use their civilians as human sacrifices and engineer a humanitarian crisis to create constant outrage and condemnation of Israel and put global pressure on them to concede. They absolutely are capable of it and the lives of their civilians are cheap. They live by the martyr ideology.

Do I believe some Israeli soldiers have behaved badly during the war. Absolutely. Show me an army that hasn’t in war. They should face consequences and will.

Do I believe Hamas has behaved badly during this war. Absolutely. They are psychopaths who fire rockets from refugee tents, steal aid trucks, hide in hospitals, mosques and schools, intentionally use civilians as canon fodder and are very public about doing so.

Will they face consequences, No, they are being rewarded with the recognition of a State they already had autonomy over, but used as an excuse for slaughtering and raping thousands, and kidnapping hundreds, of Israelis.

Would this happen if any other country other than the only Jewish State of Israel was the victim of decades of terrorism culminating in the mass attack on Oct 7th. Absolutely not. The framing of Israel as the aggressor in this is bullshit and down to a centuries old ingrained hatred of the Jewish people which most people don’t even question, plain and simple.

Jewish people have given a massive amount to humanity despite being constantly persecuted. There is no logical reason for hating them.

I am comfortable that I have made the right judgment.

In what reality will there be virtually no Palestinians left? The Palestinian population has grown during this war.

Ridiculous hyperbole and why it’s impossible to take your view seriously,

Thank you @ConscientiousObserver for expressing this so clearly.

Ridiculous hyperbole

The title of this thread is literally accusing people who support Palestinian as being pro Hamas.

That seems pretty hyberbolic to me....

Well either that or a bit Bill&Ted.

The title of this thread is 'Many pro-Palestinians DO actually support Hamas'

Given that we have evidence of them calling for jihad, intifada, and cos-playing hamasniks, I would say it's not hyperbole. The operative word is many not all.