UK to recognise Palestine as a state in September

[SomeWomanSomewhere]

"Unless the Israeli government takes substantive steps to end the appalling situation".

Source: Reuters

It is largely symbolic but it does mean the tide is turning!

Also: interesting to see that they frame it as largely contingent on Israeli behaviour

Yup.

I think the poster is likely one of the more extreme types of Zionist.

Willing to commit crimes against humanity, and sacrifice the lives of the hostages, to secure Gaza as part of Israel.

Some Israeli's want to end the "war", some prioritize the return of the hostages (understandly in the case of the familiies) - one thing these groups have in common is condemning Israel's current actions.

Extremists on both sides have one thing in common, and that's the view of human life as being expendable.

That’s hilarious.

I’m not even Jewish, let alone a Zionist.

Thanks for the laugh.

I’ll take it as a compliment.

You dont have to be Jewish to be a Zionist.

In fact, Christian Zionists trend towards extremity moreso than Jewish ones do.

I'm secular, Non-Jewish and my views probably amount to Zionism, albeit of a particularly liberal strain.

@DeftShakerI think you were talking about Starmer making a good decision earlier. What do you think of the new set of demands from Hamas?

I don't understand any of the demands to be new?

@DeftShakerthis is reported in press as new yes. Do you have information that shows it’s not?

Hamas has said it will refuse to disarm unless an independent Palestinian state is established with Jerusalem as its capital.

The Palestinian terror group said in a statement on Saturday that its “armed resistance…cannot be relinquished except through the full restoration of our national rights, foremost among them the establishment of an independent, fully sovereign Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital”.

And here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35nx49reko.amp

It does say in this article that Hamas has reaffirmed that it will not agree to disarm unless a sovereign Palestinian state is established, which suggests it has said this before

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35nx49reko.amp

Is the Jerusalem demand new?

My honest answer is I don’t know - maybe someone else will answer this later

Hamas’s demands are also the basis of joint U.N. declaration:

“Only a political solution can deliver peace or security,” the declaration stated, as it reaffirmed international backing for a two-state solution based on 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state.”

“The declaration was endorsed by a broad group of international partners that had chaired working groups during the conference, including Brazil, Egypt, Japan, Ireland and the EU, in what organizers described as an “unprecedented global consensus” on the urgent need to resolve the long-standing conflict.”

I believe the basis is according to what U.N. and other countries international organisations recognise as boundaries of Israel and future Palestinian state - the “green lines”

www.arabnews.com/node/2609938/amp

Do you know if the wording is slightly mismatched or there is a difference in demands?

News reporting covering Hamas’ demands says Jerusalem not just the East of it.

Yep. The whole of Jerusalem is the new demand after Macron and Starmer kindly said they were rewarding these sub human scum with a recognised State for the genocide of and kidnapping of Israelis and the manufacturing a fake genocide and starvation of their own civilians and making most of the world believe them, as well as reigniting a global hatred of the Jewish people.

I mean they definitely deserve a big applause as well as a State.

I can’t see anything that specifically says whole of Jerusalem. There doesn’t appear to be much detail in the press. What information if available only refers to capital being Jerusalem- not “whole of”

However - Hamas’ 2017 charter gives more detail.

In the biggest concession, the new document states that Hamas “considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of 4 June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

This would mean only East Jerusalem- as also recognised by UN and other international bodies.

The fact the media is not specifically reporting on Hamas demanding East Jerusalem says something doesn’t it?

This is the State we are going to recognise.

A terrorist firing rockets from INSIDE a tented refugee area with Israeli aid packages on display beside the rocket launcher, and people accuse Israel of full responsibility for civilian casualties?

I wonder how many civilians this practice is hitting because it doesn’t really look they are trying to avoid it, and Israel has been condemned numerous times for carrying out operations in refugee camps in Gaza.

I also wonder if Starmer and Macron are aware of this and why MSM don’t report on it if randoms on X can see it on Telegram.

Kind of puts a clearer light on why Israel will only allow entry to international journalists if they’re embedded with the IDF, as opposed to wandering around on their own!

https://x.com/justwhatever/status/1952002452267700466

People seem keen to trust Hamas, a terrorist organisation that films a tortured hostage to reach their aims.

This is something I struggle to understand why so many people seem happy to accept words coming out of Hamas or “Hamas affiliated” sources yet are so cautious about accepting anything the IDF say.

Im not saying soldiers within the IDF couldn’t possibly lie. But if you’re going to be skeptical about their “truth”, at least show the same scepticism over what Hamas report.

I mean this is the level of care Hamas takes when firing rockets. If, as is very likely, this one comes down in Gaza and kills a number of people, you know it WILL get reported as Israel that has done it, and the media WILL dutifully parrot that:

https://x.com/just_whatever/status/1952002452267700466

Could explain the reported highest levels of child amputees in the world, in Gaza.

A smaller explosive like that hitting the ground, or an unexploded one laying on the ground or picked up by a child (and obviously there is likely to be a lot as they are firing multiple rockets each time) is more likely to cause those kind of injuries than a larger IDF bomb which would cause full body injuries and most of the child amputees I’ve seen pictures of seem to have lower limb amputations.

I doubt we’ll ever know but that is chilling.

I'm also wondering about the gunshot wounds as reported by the doctors. Maybe I'm being naive but I can't see what Israel would gain by sniping children deliberately?
I can however see what Hamas would gain. And it seems to have entered mainstream consciousness as another "fact" now.

If you dehumanise people which is part of a genocide and that Palestinian lives don't matter then it's possible these events did occur.

Yep. Israel have been demonised for going into Gaza from the start. It really makes sense they would deliberately snipe children so Hamas can use it against them with the whole world watching doesn’t it, especially when they needed Western government support?

Absolutely no evidence that the IDF was shooting kids ever surfaced despite the thousands of smart phones capturing images and pouring out of Gaza daily.

A lot of people never seem to have understood that this is a military war for Israel and a propaganda war for Hamas.

Do you know how Palestinians have been dehumanised?

By being trapped in a war zone being used as human sacrifices for their terrorist government, with no one caring that they have not had the basic human right of safe refuge applied to every other civilian in a war zone.

A lot of people never seem to have understood that this is a military war for Israel and a propaganda war for Hamas.

Exactly this. And I've been really conscious of the ramping up over the last couple of weeks.

If you dehumanise people which is part of a genocide and that Palestinian lives don't matter then it's possible these events did occur.

I wouldn't categorically state that no events like this have occured ever at IDF hands, either in the confusion of war or a bad individual. But no, I don't believe it's a deliberate policy, of course not.

Especially not that overblown one doing the social media rounds of the boy who kisses the soldier's hand and is then supposedly shot dead after (that part, of course, not captured).

How do we know? What are people relying on?

Hamas refer for "Jerusalem" (sometimes qualifying it with reference to 1967 borders, sometimes not) regularly.

A different section of the 2017 Charter, for example, says:

"A real state of Palestine is a state that has been liberated. There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital."

From October 2023:

"We are ready for political negotiations for a two-state solution with Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-idf-advances-in-gaza-hamas-chief-haniyeh-claims-to-seek-political-negotiations/

There isn't anything new in Hamas's recent "set of demands", just some partisans bending over backwards to make it Starmer's fault.