Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

The term being ' genocide'

You have quite a few posts deleted, don't you? Maybe that should give you your answer.

It’s absolutely horrendous , what you and your family and friends are experiencing and needs to be head line news. I’m so angry at ppls total ignorance as to what is, has been prior happening since Oct 24. Iran is the one who funds, recruits , terrorists ! However since they are an Islamic country, Iran couldn’t possible be the perpetrator in the shit show that is happening. Why is no one protesting, STOP 🛑 Iran ?
The protesters are akin to a lynch mob. Bring back the water cannons I say .

Assigning collective guilt to a group of people is always wrong whether it is jews for the current genocide in Gaza by the Israeli government or Muslims post 9/11.

I can understand distancing yourself from people who have very different values and political views from you.

Lmfao and here we finally have it. No, anti zionism is being antisemitic. What part of self preservation, don't you believe Jews have the right to uphold? Who they fuck are you to question zionism, when you don't even know its core principle. Shall I tell you what that is? It's the priceless belief that Israel has the right to exist. That's a luxury you lefty luvvies take for granted.

I came onto this thread to express my support for any Jewish people feeling that there is now open antisemitism in the UK, and what do I read?

Pretty much immediate diversion of the discussion to Gaza including a poster who wouldn't answer questions about whether she thought that both Jews and Palestinians should have a state (she was all in favour of a Palestinian one... very cagey about the idea of a Jewish one).

It's perfectly possible to support the idea of a Jewish state while being critical of the current Israeli government, and to criticise the current Israeli government without being accused of antisemitism (I've done it many times over the years).

So, that being the case, why this recurrent need to drag the conversation away from the UK? Why not just say, the current level of antisemitism - such as the examples given by @PurpleChrayn- is appalling; whatever is going on in the ME should not be having this sort of impact on British Jews?

It is so utterly depressing. I had several Jewish friends at uni whose parents had come to England as life for them and their communities in Arab countries in the Middle East had become unsustainable: they were basically forced out. At least one of those friends is now contemplating leaving this country as he says he no longer feels welcome here.

I am so, so sorry that things are going this way. I never thought I'd see times like these.

Am Yisrael Chai.

Yes, it all took a distressingly predictable turn.

100% agree with every word of your post.

@edithstourton It's the same every time support is shown in the fight against antisemitism. These posters then have the nerve to complain about being called antisemitic for speaking out against Israel. They know exactly what they are doing.

You have more posts deleted than on average. I stand by my original point.

Didn’t realise it was a competition. Must try harder.

I don't think you need to try harder, to be contentious.

Ditto

I don't see many of my posts being deleted. Goodnight.

Antizionism is very simple. It is not believing the Jewish people have a right to self determination and the right to a nation. It is denying the shared ethnic, cultural and religious ties that bind the Jewish people despite them being unable to live in their own state over many centuries until the creation of the state of Israel. Zionism, as in Israel being ventral to Jewish identity long predates the 19th century Zionist movement because the Jewish people came from Israel.Its perfectly possible to criticise the process of creation in the 20th century without being antisemitic. Its possible to criticise subsequent Israeli governments without being antisemitic. Jews and Israelis do it all the time. But to deny the right of self determination to the Jewish people? To persist in denying the modern state of Israel because you disagree with the way it was established decades ago? Of course that is antisemitic. If you don't believe Jewish people have a right to a state of their own you are basically saying they should accept their history of persecution, expulsion and systematic murder. Where exactly should they go? Its not just immoral and racist. Its impractical.

'silence is complcity'

Someone seeing the mezuzah on our door and ringing the bell to ask our views on Palestine.

"Why are you asking a British citizen to explain/justify/condemn the actions of a different sovereign state 3000 miles away?"

"Oh, the religion? Do you demand that British citizens who happen to be Muslim explain/justify/condemn Hamas's actions in Israel?"

"There's a name for that attitude."

Don't always work, but it sometimes stops the "I'm not anti-Semitic, but..." types.

Bullies gonna bully, and we're beautiful targets right now.

👏 👏

Obviously it is way more complicated than Ireland and Northern Ireland but a two state solution seems like the only way forward. I was born in Ireland just as the troubles started and my eldest daughter just after the Good Friday Agreement. I never thought that peace in the North would happen in my lifetime but it did. Peace talks are vital and hopefully they will be successful sooner rather than later.

If people want to have "anti zionist" marches a good starting point would be to tell the truth that it's what they're doing. The pretence they're human rights campaigners is wearing mighty thin.

It's pretty much from reading accounts on here that I'm learning of the scale of this horrible undercurrent impacting Jewish people.

I understand from an Islam perspective where this comes from. ( I don't agree or support at all,but I get it). What I'm very confused about is the Western, seemingly non Islam confirming people; the Pro Palestine brigade and the like. Do they actually have a dislike of the Jewish community or the fundamentals of Judaism? And why?

I am an atheist. Yet, I can look on from the outside and think erm, hello you idiots; the Holocaust? 7th October? 1 state in the entire world for Jewish people. Just 1 state surrounded by multiple geographical locations rooted in an identity of Islam.

Do I feel any concern that this religion (Judaism)and any ideology will be rammed down my throat and I'll be punished for saying no thanks to it's fundamentals personally? No way.

So what is going on here?

Why do these protesters in this country never reflect on 7th October? I cannot in any way understand it.

I do reflect on the 7th of October. I don’t want it to happen again, so I would like peace. The 7th of October didn’t come out of a vacuum as horrendous as it was.

Yes I can see that pov you highlight. My knowledge is of course limited on the entire history.

There's just something really wrong on the surface when one observes the weight of action that is Pro Palestine and yet the weight of this other gigantic hideous elephant in the room is almost non existent. Something feels very wrong out there so to speak. In the public sphere. The sense is so very off to me.

I can't answer why there were / are no pro awareness to Oct 7th - say at a music festival where you might commemorate this? Why there are swathes of people who seem a bit left field ignoring it but wearing those headscarves and flying pro Palestine flags? Eh? Anyone out there......?!

This isn't even about sides as such. This is to me - wtf??? Why is everyone ignoring this publicly? I do not understand it and I genuinely mean this.

I am not sure I understand your post. The 7th of October gives me nightmares and still does. The humanitarian crisis in Gaza and all babies and children dying give me similar nightmares. I wish the world was run by women. I think it would be a better place.

Apologies, it's not very articulate.

I could be going down a rabbit hole so am aware it's important to try see all pov. I'm reflecting in my comment on various videos I've seen recently in major UK cities of Pro Palestine protests. These people who are vast in numbers are often very vociferously vocalising ' Pro Palestine '. Then I look at Glastonbury and what I saw there ( only online and TV if course). So I think where's the representation for this other huge problem? What happened on Oct 7, what's happening to Jewish people.

I can't understand why there's so much weight, in numbers, from multiple quarters, that highlight 'Pro Palestine ', but I see nothing reflecting other huge issues such as Oct 7th. What about what's happening to Jewish people atm? Where is the representation here? Say from the middles class white annoying idiots I've seen in their large numbers on film this wknd. I'm confused by this.

I come to the conclusion; they're potentially absolutely clueless. ( For the majority, not all who may have direct awareness or experience of what's happening over there).

It begins with a superficial demand for an end for the 'genocide' but quickly morphs into extrapolating the current conflict to the broader aim of the destruction of Israel. The Israeli government is quickly conflated with Israeli society as a whole and by extension Jews globally. People have become wise to this and are fed up and scared.

Anything connected to Israel is now a target (Eurovision for example) and we have to call this out. There are too many activists and journalists weaving narratives that complaining about anti semitis m is a distraction to the main issue. Anti semitism is anti semitism no matter what.