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Conflict in the Middle East

Anti-semitism in the UK

797 replies

Lolapusht · 13/07/2025 11:02

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

OP posts:
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22
Voxon · 13/07/2025 20:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

So then your position is that you require all Jewish people, half of which are Israeli, to support YOUR position and denounce the Jewish state or you will ostracise them?

What jumps off the page isn't so much that you're a bigot, but that you actually feel morally superior for being so.

Barbadosgirl · 13/07/2025 20:45

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 19:39

For really attacking Jews, no, it wouldn't. I condemn anti-Semitism and all racism.

However, the IHRA considers any criticism of Israel or if Zionism as anti-Semitism and that is not right
That's why I'm sceptical of any accusation of anti-Semitism unless I have seen the details.

Real “I am not anti-Semitic but” vibes here.

frockandcrocs · 13/07/2025 20:46

Hmmm, deleted post where I said that the Israeli government is guilty of killing innocents. That’s interesting.

quantumbutterfly · 13/07/2025 20:49

frockandcrocs · 13/07/2025 20:46

Hmmm, deleted post where I said that the Israeli government is guilty of killing innocents. That’s interesting.

Aluminum foil is cheaper and easier to find than tin foil.

Barbadosgirl · 13/07/2025 20:50

SharonEllis · 13/07/2025 20:11

Its not a fringe thing at all. It is completely mainstream. I was absolutely shocked by the reaction to 7 October. Really shaken to my core.

Me too. I had long suspected pro-Palestine fever was a figleaf for anti-Semitism and I was proved right, sadly.

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 20:51

Voxon · 13/07/2025 19:45

This is a copy and paste of it, it doesn't say that at all.

Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).

Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor."

Isn't that basically anti-Zionism so it's stating that being anti-Zionist is anti-semitic.

Hoppinggreen · 13/07/2025 20:52

User37482 · 13/07/2025 20:36

Ok how about this
The poster was fundamentally saying that the hostile environment created for Jews is fine because it’s actually about Israel not Jews. While Jews are saying no, we are being targeted for being Jewish and it’s getting more overt and more threatening.

i’m not Jewish shit feels pretty anti-semitic to me. I have however experienced racism and the way people brush this off is chilling to me.

Are you referring to me?
I was fundamentally saying that Anti Semitism is completely unacceptable but that objecting to Genocide in Gaza was not anti semitism.
I would also say that SOME people are supporting Gaza to promote anti semitism but not thats not the case for everyone and certainly not for me.
I completely condemn anti semitism and the actions of Hamas on October 7th, and before and after BUT I also condemn the genocide in Gaza

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 20:53

Barbadosgirl · 13/07/2025 20:45

Real “I am not anti-Semitic but” vibes here.

There we go then, you've proved me right! All sorts of valid opinions are considered anti-Semitic.

Voxon · 13/07/2025 20:53

Honestly, I found a few of these replies quite upsetting.

Someone was sharing how she’s been spat at, excluded, and lost friends just for being Jewish and supporting Israel. Saying “I wouldn’t be your friend either" is awful. The sneering dismissal.

Not ever seen hate like this in the mainstream in Britain before.

Beachtastic · 13/07/2025 20:56

Voxon · 13/07/2025 20:53

Honestly, I found a few of these replies quite upsetting.

Someone was sharing how she’s been spat at, excluded, and lost friends just for being Jewish and supporting Israel. Saying “I wouldn’t be your friend either" is awful. The sneering dismissal.

Not ever seen hate like this in the mainstream in Britain before.

Frightening, isn't it. All justified in the name of "opposing genocide" (without a trace of irony...)

VivaVivaa · 13/07/2025 21:01

Someone was sharing how she’s been spat at, excluded, and lost friends just for being Jewish
Shouldn’t happen, abhorrent antisemitic behaviour.

and supporting Israel
Nobody should be physically or verbally intimidated over their beliefs and if someone was spat at for supperting Isreal the perpetrator should face the full force of the law. But equally, if others don’t like what the state of Isreal is doing, they are completely within their rights to distance themselves from someone who openly supports them.

Voxon · 13/07/2025 21:02

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 20:51

"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor."

Isn't that basically anti-Zionism so it's stating that being anti-Zionist is anti-semitic.

Gwen you wrote "However, the IHRA considers any criticism of Israel or if Zionism as anti-Semitism and that is not right"

The definition actually explicity says criticising Israel is fine and doesn't say criticising zionism is antisemitic. It says denying Jews the right of self determination is.

Let me show you the difference:

CRITICISING ZIONISM
"I believe Jewish people absolutely have the right to self-determination and safety in a homeland of their own, like any other people. But I criticise the way Zionism has been applied —especially policies that have displaced Palestinians or denied them equal rights. My issue isn't with Jewish nationhood, but with how it's been used politically to justify ongoing occupation and inequality"

DENYING JEWISH RIGHT OF SELF DETERMINATION
"I support a one state from the river to the sea where Israel is dismantled and replaced with a single Palestinian state. Jews don’t need their own country and they should go back to Poland"

Hopefully now you can see the difference between criticising zionism and denying rights to one group only.

Voxon · 13/07/2025 21:05

VivaVivaa · 13/07/2025 21:01

Someone was sharing how she’s been spat at, excluded, and lost friends just for being Jewish
Shouldn’t happen, abhorrent antisemitic behaviour.

and supporting Israel
Nobody should be physically or verbally intimidated over their beliefs and if someone was spat at for supperting Isreal the perpetrator should face the full force of the law. But equally, if others don’t like what the state of Isreal is doing, they are completely within their rights to distance themselves from someone who openly supports them.

Nobody should be forced, intimidated or otherwise coerced to denounce their country. If you had a Saudi friend or a friend from Qatar you wouldn't expect them to. You are not entitled to single out Jews like this and think you can bully them into taking on YOUR views about THEIR identity, nationality, religion nor anything else

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:07

Hoppinggreen · 13/07/2025 19:29

I have no doubt that there is anti semitism in The Uk and its completely unacceptable.
However, objecting to The genocide in Gaza is NOT anti semitism.

Who said it was?

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:08

Voxon · 13/07/2025 21:02

Gwen you wrote "However, the IHRA considers any criticism of Israel or if Zionism as anti-Semitism and that is not right"

The definition actually explicity says criticising Israel is fine and doesn't say criticising zionism is antisemitic. It says denying Jews the right of self determination is.

Let me show you the difference:

CRITICISING ZIONISM
"I believe Jewish people absolutely have the right to self-determination and safety in a homeland of their own, like any other people. But I criticise the way Zionism has been applied —especially policies that have displaced Palestinians or denied them equal rights. My issue isn't with Jewish nationhood, but with how it's been used politically to justify ongoing occupation and inequality"

DENYING JEWISH RIGHT OF SELF DETERMINATION
"I support a one state from the river to the sea where Israel is dismantled and replaced with a single Palestinian state. Jews don’t need their own country and they should go back to Poland"

Hopefully now you can see the difference between criticising zionism and denying rights to one group only.

No, I don't see the difference really. My initial point was about anti-Zionism, that's not criticising how the Israeli state works in practice, it's about criticising how it was set up in general. So basically, you agree that it's not possible to be anti-Zionist and not be accused of being anti-Semitist under the IHRA.

Hoppinggreen · 13/07/2025 21:08

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:07

Who said it was?

It comes up A LOT on here.
ANY criticism of The Israeli govts actions in Gaza is often dismissed as Anti Semitism

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:10

VivaVivaa · 13/07/2025 21:01

Someone was sharing how she’s been spat at, excluded, and lost friends just for being Jewish
Shouldn’t happen, abhorrent antisemitic behaviour.

and supporting Israel
Nobody should be physically or verbally intimidated over their beliefs and if someone was spat at for supperting Isreal the perpetrator should face the full force of the law. But equally, if others don’t like what the state of Isreal is doing, they are completely within their rights to distance themselves from someone who openly supports them.

So I would be perfectly reasonable to distance myself from any Iranian people I may know after the way they murdered women for daring having hair? Distance myself from any German people I know because Nazis committed genocide 80 years ago? (Would need to get a divorce, DH has German heritage). How about distancing myself from English people (I'm English) because I'm half Irish after the way the English have treated the Irish?🤔

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:10

Voxon · 13/07/2025 20:53

Honestly, I found a few of these replies quite upsetting.

Someone was sharing how she’s been spat at, excluded, and lost friends just for being Jewish and supporting Israel. Saying “I wouldn’t be your friend either" is awful. The sneering dismissal.

Not ever seen hate like this in the mainstream in Britain before.

But it's not anti-Semitic is it? It's not wanting to be friends with someone who supports Israel. It's like not wanting to be friends with someone who is MAGA - doesn't mean you hate all Americans.

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:11

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:10

So I would be perfectly reasonable to distance myself from any Iranian people I may know after the way they murdered women for daring having hair? Distance myself from any German people I know because Nazis committed genocide 80 years ago? (Would need to get a divorce, DH has German heritage). How about distancing myself from English people (I'm English) because I'm half Irish after the way the English have treated the Irish?🤔

You missed out 'supporting'.

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:12

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:10

But it's not anti-Semitic is it? It's not wanting to be friends with someone who supports Israel. It's like not wanting to be friends with someone who is MAGA - doesn't mean you hate all Americans.

So I can openly state I don't want to associate with any Muslims because I disagree with their religion, the way it treats women and their views on Jewish people and it won't be classed as Islamophobia?

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:14

Hoppinggreen · 13/07/2025 21:08

It comes up A LOT on here.
ANY criticism of The Israeli govts actions in Gaza is often dismissed as Anti Semitism

That's because A LOT of people can't seem to separate Jews from the Israeli government! Imagine ordinary British people were blamed for things our government has done a world away. Would that be reasonable?

Voxon · 13/07/2025 21:15

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:08

No, I don't see the difference really. My initial point was about anti-Zionism, that's not criticising how the Israeli state works in practice, it's about criticising how it was set up in general. So basically, you agree that it's not possible to be anti-Zionist and not be accused of being anti-Semitist under the IHRA.

What do you mean by anti-zionism?

Do you think Palestinians have a right of self determination but Jews don't, or do you think both do?

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:15

PinkSwatch · 13/07/2025 21:12

So I can openly state I don't want to associate with any Muslims because I disagree with their religion, the way it treats women and their views on Jewish people and it won't be classed as Islamophobia?

You're mixing different things there.

A better analogy would be saying you're not anti-Russian, but refusing to be friends with pro-Putin people, which I would do.

Barbadosgirl · 13/07/2025 21:15

Gwenhwyfar · 13/07/2025 21:08

No, I don't see the difference really. My initial point was about anti-Zionism, that's not criticising how the Israeli state works in practice, it's about criticising how it was set up in general. So basically, you agree that it's not possible to be anti-Zionist and not be accused of being anti-Semitist under the IHRA.

If you don’t think Jews have a right to self-determination and to live in and govern their ancestral homeland then you might want to ask yourself why.

LipstickLessons · 13/07/2025 21:16

Voxon · 13/07/2025 20:42

So then your position is that you require all Jewish people, half of which are Israeli, to support YOUR position and denounce the Jewish state or you will ostracise them?

What jumps off the page isn't so much that you're a bigot, but that you actually feel morally superior for being so.

No. Her views went way beyond supporting Israel. Her views were extremely derogatory. That's why I called her views abhorrent.