Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Israels plan for Gazas future

958 replies

MixedMetals · 07/07/2025 22:40

Defense Minister Israel Katz said Monday that he has instructed the IDF to prepare a plan to establish a "humanitarian city" on the ruins of Rafah, which would eventually house the entire population of the Gaza Strip.

According to Katz, the plan involves moving 600,000 Palestinians, primarily from the al-Muwasi area, into the new zone after security screening. Once inside, residents would not be allowed to leave, the defense minister said.

Katz added that, if conditions permit, construction of the "city" would begin during the 60-day Israel-Hamas cease-fire currently under negotiation.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-07/ty-article/.premium/defense-minister-israel-to-concentrate-all-gaza-population-in-rafah-humanitarian-zone/00000197-e56a-d1ad-ab97-e5ef764e0000

Defense minister: Israel to concentrate all Gaza population in Rafah 'humanitarian' zone

***

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-07/ty-article/.premium/defense-minister-israel-to-concentrate-all-gaza-population-in-rafah-humanitarian-zone/00000197-e56a-d1ad-ab97-e5ef764e0000

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 13:55

Tooblondetooyoung · 08/07/2025 13:48

If the term is triggering (which I get), then the criticism should be placed on those who are creating the concentration camp, not those who label it correctly as such.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, I'm going to call it a duck.

There's a difference between using examples of ww2 because it causes extra pain - awful, and using it because of genuine historical parallels.

Surely there has to be a line somewhere. Maybe we aren't there yet (and hopefully won't be), but immunity from comparisons has it's limits. For me genocide crosses that line.

I don't agree, I think there are other ways to describe it like an internment camp, a transition camp, or some other term a poster comes up with that they feel is accurate.

If you genuinely get that the term is triggering, why use it? And I note that you have just repeated the phrase so I'm going to assume that you don't actually "get" or maybe care that the term is triggering for some people.

We don't even know the details of the camp yet or even whether it will definitely go ahead. It may be that a ceasefire is agreed this week.

Tooblondetooyoung · 08/07/2025 13:58

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 13:55

I don't agree, I think there are other ways to describe it like an internment camp, a transition camp, or some other term a poster comes up with that they feel is accurate.

If you genuinely get that the term is triggering, why use it? And I note that you have just repeated the phrase so I'm going to assume that you don't actually "get" or maybe care that the term is triggering for some people.

We don't even know the details of the camp yet or even whether it will definitely go ahead. It may be that a ceasefire is agreed this week.

Edited

I get it but I also prefer to use the most suitable language. If it's upsetting at the thought of Israel putting people in concentration camps then maybe protest against this proposal.

User37482 · 08/07/2025 14:00

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 13:53

I am what you define as Pro Palestinian and I agree with you regarding the two state solution. By contrast however I think Israelis also need to accept that Palestine is here to stay completely free from Israeli control (whilst also agreeing that there should be no question that Israel is also here to stay)
I completely agree that all terror networks need to be dismantled and the support of governments of terrorists to destabilize the region needs to stop.

However I do think that you completely missed the mark with the support from the west. I don't know anyone who supports the ideals and actions of Hamas instead focusing on the suffering of innocent Palestinians (and Sudanese/Afghanis etc)

I don’t agree, if people genuinely wanted the best for Palestinians and an end to the war they would have been calling for the hostages to be released and Hamas to disband. They are often anti-israeli, often anti semitic and seem desperately sad when people like hamas or hezbollah lose.

There were celebrations in london while 7th October was happening. My local lebanese restaurant sent out free sweets with my takeout. They didn’t say it was 7th October but given I never got free sweets before I think it was probably that.

If so many cared about human life they would have been really cut up about the Israeli victims of the terror attack. Instead there is rape denial and the whole “history didn’t start that day” while neglecting to mention there was a ceasefire in place on the 7th October that Hamas needlessly breached.

I think the west has become self indulgent and stupid tbh.

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 14:08

Tooblondetooyoung · 08/07/2025 13:58

I get it but I also prefer to use the most suitable language. If it's upsetting at the thought of Israel putting people in concentration camps then maybe protest against this proposal.

Then our conversation is over if you know that a certain term is deeply upsetting to some MN users but you insist on continuing to use it anyway. I'm not suggesting people don't talk about the proposed camp, only that they refrain from describing it in that particular way associated with the holocaust.

That is your right of course. Though MN mods did delete a whole thread on AIBU this morning that was using the same term to discuss the proposed new camp.

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:09

User37482 · 08/07/2025 14:00

I don’t agree, if people genuinely wanted the best for Palestinians and an end to the war they would have been calling for the hostages to be released and Hamas to disband. They are often anti-israeli, often anti semitic and seem desperately sad when people like hamas or hezbollah lose.

There were celebrations in london while 7th October was happening. My local lebanese restaurant sent out free sweets with my takeout. They didn’t say it was 7th October but given I never got free sweets before I think it was probably that.

If so many cared about human life they would have been really cut up about the Israeli victims of the terror attack. Instead there is rape denial and the whole “history didn’t start that day” while neglecting to mention there was a ceasefire in place on the 7th October that Hamas needlessly breached.

I think the west has become self indulgent and stupid tbh.

Edited

Completely disagree with you .

Hostages should be released and Hamas should disband however do you think a terrorist organization is going to listen to protesters in the West. No but governments who are supporting and funding Israeli might (doubtful)

Calling the protesters anti semitic is a get out clause from looking at the reasons people are so horrified by the images of children blown to bits in Gaza. There is also frustration at the way so many countries have shut down any debate or protest against Israeli actions (US especially) with the view that Israel has a right to defend itself and this is the only truth allowed.

I know absolutely nobody (and everyone I know is Pro Palestine) who did not see the events of October 7th for the violent atrocity they were. I don't disbelieve your experience but it does not tally with mine.

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 14:12

User37482 · 08/07/2025 14:00

I don’t agree, if people genuinely wanted the best for Palestinians and an end to the war they would have been calling for the hostages to be released and Hamas to disband. They are often anti-israeli, often anti semitic and seem desperately sad when people like hamas or hezbollah lose.

There were celebrations in london while 7th October was happening. My local lebanese restaurant sent out free sweets with my takeout. They didn’t say it was 7th October but given I never got free sweets before I think it was probably that.

If so many cared about human life they would have been really cut up about the Israeli victims of the terror attack. Instead there is rape denial and the whole “history didn’t start that day” while neglecting to mention there was a ceasefire in place on the 7th October that Hamas needlessly breached.

I think the west has become self indulgent and stupid tbh.

Edited

Absolutely.

The reaction by many to Oct 7th, which was by any stretch a mass atrocity without comparison in most of our life times, completely opened my eyes to the insidious, ingrained, anti-semitism that pervades globally and is the very reason Palestinians themselves have suffered under the oppression and brutality of their own leaders for 77 years instead of living alongside Israel as a parallel State in peace

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 14:19

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:09

Completely disagree with you .

Hostages should be released and Hamas should disband however do you think a terrorist organization is going to listen to protesters in the West. No but governments who are supporting and funding Israeli might (doubtful)

Calling the protesters anti semitic is a get out clause from looking at the reasons people are so horrified by the images of children blown to bits in Gaza. There is also frustration at the way so many countries have shut down any debate or protest against Israeli actions (US especially) with the view that Israel has a right to defend itself and this is the only truth allowed.

I know absolutely nobody (and everyone I know is Pro Palestine) who did not see the events of October 7th for the violent atrocity they were. I don't disbelieve your experience but it does not tally with mine.

Does it never occur to you why you are seeing these constant images of death and destruction from Gaza as opposed to Sudan, Yemen, Ukraine, the Congo and Nigeria where other terrible atrocities are carried out on a daily basis?

User37482 · 08/07/2025 14:20

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:09

Completely disagree with you .

Hostages should be released and Hamas should disband however do you think a terrorist organization is going to listen to protesters in the West. No but governments who are supporting and funding Israeli might (doubtful)

Calling the protesters anti semitic is a get out clause from looking at the reasons people are so horrified by the images of children blown to bits in Gaza. There is also frustration at the way so many countries have shut down any debate or protest against Israeli actions (US especially) with the view that Israel has a right to defend itself and this is the only truth allowed.

I know absolutely nobody (and everyone I know is Pro Palestine) who did not see the events of October 7th for the violent atrocity they were. I don't disbelieve your experience but it does not tally with mine.

I haven’t seen a single anti hamas statement coming out of protests. Not a single one. In all the anti Israel activity I haven’t seen the denouncing of terrorism. You don’t have to believe Hamas is listening to think it’s not worth saying. We could call for the Iranian embassy to be shut down because they have been funding hamas. We could call for the muslim brotherhood to be banned in the uk as hamas are an offshoot. There are UK focussed things we could do to signal that we disapprove of Hamas. Not seen any of that proposed.

I’ve seen a lot of minimising of terror attacks. People ripping down hostage posters or yellow ribbons. It is active hostility towards Israeli citizens who were murdered or kidnapped. This has expanded to active and open hostilities towards Jews (British Jews).

MixedMetals · 08/07/2025 14:23

I'm wondering what Israel will do with all of the bodies? They speak of starting construction of their internment camp during the cease fire if it goes ahead, this will surely involve moving a lot of rubble with bodies underneath. Given their history of withholding the bodies of Palestinians, of creating mass graves and organ harvesting without permission are they really the right people to deal with this?

Will proper efforts be made to reunite people with their loved ones? Will this process be overseen by anyone?

I find it really concerning to be honest that Israel may be the ones who are dealing with this. Is there going to be louder calls for International access?

OP posts:
Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:28

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 14:19

Does it never occur to you why you are seeing these constant images of death and destruction from Gaza as opposed to Sudan, Yemen, Ukraine, the Congo and Nigeria where other terrible atrocities are carried out on a daily basis?

Russia has been sanctioned for it's actions in Ukraine.
Yemen is a civil war between internal factions.
Sudan is also a civil war between warring factions of the military government.
Congo is a civil war.
Nigeria is an internal issue with Boko Haram.

Israel is the country desecrating another country that it has Occupied for years without any sanctions.
Why do you think that is?

PaxAeterna · 08/07/2025 14:29

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 13:55

I don't agree, I think there are other ways to describe it like an internment camp, a transition camp, or some other term a poster comes up with that they feel is accurate.

If you genuinely get that the term is triggering, why use it? And I note that you have just repeated the phrase so I'm going to assume that you don't actually "get" or maybe care that the term is triggering for some people.

We don't even know the details of the camp yet or even whether it will definitely go ahead. It may be that a ceasefire is agreed this week.

Edited

is death camp better?

seems fitting. Thousands of people will die from disease.

Maybe the world could call it death camps to not cause anyone any offence.

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:31

User37482 · 08/07/2025 14:20

I haven’t seen a single anti hamas statement coming out of protests. Not a single one. In all the anti Israel activity I haven’t seen the denouncing of terrorism. You don’t have to believe Hamas is listening to think it’s not worth saying. We could call for the Iranian embassy to be shut down because they have been funding hamas. We could call for the muslim brotherhood to be banned in the uk as hamas are an offshoot. There are UK focussed things we could do to signal that we disapprove of Hamas. Not seen any of that proposed.

I’ve seen a lot of minimising of terror attacks. People ripping down hostage posters or yellow ribbons. It is active hostility towards Israeli citizens who were murdered or kidnapped. This has expanded to active and open hostilities towards Jews (British Jews).

How many protests have you attended?

If people denounced Hamas would you join in the protests to stop the relentless killing of civilians by the IDF?

I have seen a lot of minimizing on here of the tragedies in Gaza and the refrain "that is what happens in war" is oft repeated.

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 14:37

Tooblondetooyoung · 08/07/2025 13:48

If the term is triggering (which I get), then the criticism should be placed on those who are creating the concentration camp, not those who label it correctly as such.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, I'm going to call it a duck.

There's a difference between using examples of ww2 because it causes extra pain - awful, and using it because of genuine historical parallels.

Surely there has to be a line somewhere. Maybe we aren't there yet (and hopefully won't be), but immunity from comparisons has it's limits. For me genocide crosses that line.

In concentration camps, Jews were taken in their hundreds of thousands from their homes all over Europe for the purpose of being imprisoned or murdered as a way of ensuring their race ceased to exist.

All their possessions were taken from them, they were in most cases ripped from their family and forced to live in overcrowded, disease-ridden barracks, starved to the edge of death - and often beyond it.

I’m sure you’ve seen the photographs of their skeletal bodies. About 1 million starved to death.

Beatings, torture, forced labour, and arbitrary execution were routine. Many camps, like Auschwitz, weren’t just prisons - they were factories of death, where gas chambers and crematoria were used to murder thousands daily. Prisoners were stripped of their names, identities, and dignity, reduced to numbers in a system designed to erase their very existence.

So no - this does not “walk like a duck.”

It does not act like a duck.

Calling Gaza a concentration camp is not just a false comparison - it’s Holocaust reductionism at best, and at worst, a deeply calculated insult that tries to equate Jews with those who exterminated them.

I really hope when people do this it's accidental - like a kind of thoughtlessness where they're expressing their frustration by trying to use the worst words and language they can, but I think they need to reflect that they are twisting the knife in the deepest wound of Jewish history.

Yes, life in Gaza is difficult. But in concentration camps, people didn’t go home to their families at night. They didn’t attend school, university, or weddings. They didn’t have houses, malls, cafés, or beaches. They didn’t swim in pools or go for a day at the beach. They didn't have graduation ceremonies or poster on their walls. They languished in filth, starved, and were systematically destroyed.

I really hope you and anyone reading this can take this on board. It really pains me to read these sorts of things. I am not Jewish, but I got my degree in Genocide Studies and spent a very, very long time reading the horrors of the Holocaust and I do not feel there is any comparison of any kind to be made.

MixedMetals · 08/07/2025 14:41

PaxAeterna · 08/07/2025 14:29

is death camp better?

seems fitting. Thousands of people will die from disease.

Maybe the world could call it death camps to not cause anyone any offence.

Death camp is probably very fitting. People seem to think that you can cram 2million in a small area and everything will be just rosy. How many hospitals are in this death camp, Gaza had 36 hospitals pre conflict, are Israel planning on building these in their death camp? Medical centres, how many? Where will cancer patients be treated? How are they going to provide 20-50litres of water per day for 2 million people? How are they planning on schooling almost 1 million children? Providing food, there certainly won't be any space for Palestinians to grow their own.

Once they have Palestinians caged then surely Palestinians are 100% their responsibility. That's what you would expect if any country cages 2 million people right? They are responsible for the health and well being of their captives. Does anybody think that Israel will take this responsibility seriously?

It's an utterly insane idea and that some people here won't just outright say that is very telling. If Palestinians decided to cage every Israeli in the West Bank there would be uproar. I don't think we would be having inane conversations about what those camps are called I think we all know exactly what they would called.

OP posts:
Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:45

Yes, life in Gaza is difficult. But in concentration camps, people didn’t go home to their families at night. They didn’t attend school, university, or weddings. They didn’t have houses, malls, cafés, or beaches. They didn’t swim in pools or go for a day at the beach. They didn't have graduation ceremonies or poster on their walls. They languished in filth, starved, and were systematically destroyed.

I understand not using the term concentration camp and the emotions it stirs in people.

But you have literally described what life is currently like in Gaza not to mind how much worse it will get in a camp patrolled by the IDF.

Ifeellikeateenageragain · 08/07/2025 14:46

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 14:37

In concentration camps, Jews were taken in their hundreds of thousands from their homes all over Europe for the purpose of being imprisoned or murdered as a way of ensuring their race ceased to exist.

All their possessions were taken from them, they were in most cases ripped from their family and forced to live in overcrowded, disease-ridden barracks, starved to the edge of death - and often beyond it.

I’m sure you’ve seen the photographs of their skeletal bodies. About 1 million starved to death.

Beatings, torture, forced labour, and arbitrary execution were routine. Many camps, like Auschwitz, weren’t just prisons - they were factories of death, where gas chambers and crematoria were used to murder thousands daily. Prisoners were stripped of their names, identities, and dignity, reduced to numbers in a system designed to erase their very existence.

So no - this does not “walk like a duck.”

It does not act like a duck.

Calling Gaza a concentration camp is not just a false comparison - it’s Holocaust reductionism at best, and at worst, a deeply calculated insult that tries to equate Jews with those who exterminated them.

I really hope when people do this it's accidental - like a kind of thoughtlessness where they're expressing their frustration by trying to use the worst words and language they can, but I think they need to reflect that they are twisting the knife in the deepest wound of Jewish history.

Yes, life in Gaza is difficult. But in concentration camps, people didn’t go home to their families at night. They didn’t attend school, university, or weddings. They didn’t have houses, malls, cafés, or beaches. They didn’t swim in pools or go for a day at the beach. They didn't have graduation ceremonies or poster on their walls. They languished in filth, starved, and were systematically destroyed.

I really hope you and anyone reading this can take this on board. It really pains me to read these sorts of things. I am not Jewish, but I got my degree in Genocide Studies and spent a very, very long time reading the horrors of the Holocaust and I do not feel there is any comparison of any kind to be made.

Life in Gaza is difficult?????????

Wow.

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 14:49

Ifeellikeateenageragain · 08/07/2025 14:46

Life in Gaza is difficult?????????

Wow.

That was my reaction to.
Complete minimizing of the situation.

PaxAeterna · 08/07/2025 14:51

What are you talking about? Have you been asleep for a long time. All schools in Gaza are shut. Every university is destroyed. 90% of people have lost their home? Who has posters on their walls?

MixedMetals · 08/07/2025 14:52

Ifeellikeateenageragain · 08/07/2025 14:46

Life in Gaza is difficult?????????

Wow.

Yes, don't you know, everyone is heading off 'home to their families' every night, safely tucked up in bed. 90% don't have homes anymore, they are displaced but let's not let facts get in the way.

OP posts:
ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 14:58

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 13:53

I am what you define as Pro Palestinian and I agree with you regarding the two state solution. By contrast however I think Israelis also need to accept that Palestine is here to stay completely free from Israeli control (whilst also agreeing that there should be no question that Israel is also here to stay)
I completely agree that all terror networks need to be dismantled and the support of governments of terrorists to destabilize the region needs to stop.

However I do think that you completely missed the mark with the support from the west. I don't know anyone who supports the ideals and actions of Hamas instead focusing on the suffering of innocent Palestinians (and Sudanese/Afghanis etc)

Can I just ask honestly: do you really believe that Israel and Egypt maintain a blockade on Gaza because they just hate Palestinians - specifically the ones in Gaza, but not the ones living in Israel or New York?

Or is it, perhaps more realistically, because Gaza is governed by a terrorist organisation that has publicly, repeatedly, and proudly declared its goal to annihilate Israel, fires rockets at Israeli civilians daily, and has shown time and again that it would escalate that violence tenfold if given the means?

Because we both know the answer is b.

And if that’s the case, isn’t it disingenuous to say that “Israel needs to accept that Palestine should be free of Israeli control” - when what they’re actually controlling is whether or not Hamas is allowed to freely import weapons, coordinate attacks, and murder civilians en masse?

This isn’t an abstract debate. If Israel and Egypt lifted the blockade tomorrow, Hamas would immediately attempt to bring in more advanced weapons -supplied eagerly by Iran - and launch far more devastating attacks. You don’t need to guess what they’d do. They’ve told us. Repeatedly.

So practically speaking, Israel has no choice but to maintain some level of control over Gaza, not because it wants to - but because Gaza’s leadership has openly committed itself to Israel’s destruction.

If Gaza were peaceful, disarmed, and governed by people seeking coexistence, that control would end tomorrow. You can't possible believe otherwise. Why on earth would Israel want a blockade on a people who wished it no harm?

This statement is effectively advocating for Hamas to have unrestricted access to whatever weapons and resources they want - including those that could obliterate Tel Aviv or Haifa. If that’s not what you want to happen, then I hope you consider the full implications of what removing all Israeli control would actually enable.

And finally - can you show me a single image or video from any pro-Palestine march where demonstrators are holding up signs condemning Hamas? Criticising their war crimes? Calling for them to stop using civilians as shields or firing rockets from schools?

I ask because I work near Westminster, and these protests pass by regularly.

I’ve never seen even one example.

Never.

Not one single time.

What I have seen is that if a pro-Israel individual shows up with a sign calling out Hamas, they’re either physically attacked or arrested for being “provocative.”

Whether you support Hamas or not, I am certain the loons running by my office screaming to globalise intifadas definitely do!

1dayatatime · 08/07/2025 15:00

@User37482

I" haven’t seen a single anti hamas statement coming out of protests. Not a single one"

The only anti Hamas protester - Niyak Ghorbani at the protests was physically attacked.

"I’ve seen a lot of minimising of terror attacks. People ripping down hostage posters or yellow ribbons. It is active hostility towards Israeli citizens who were murdered or kidnapped. This has expanded to active and open hostilities towards Jews (British Jews)."

What concerns me is the rabbit hole and entrenched view that many of the protesters have.

On the 20th anniversary of the 7th July bombings in London it deeply worries me that there are small steps from minimising terror attacks to ripping down hostage posters to hospitalising a female police officer with a sledgehammer to becoming an active terrorist in the UK - all in support of the Palestinian cause.

PaxAeterna · 08/07/2025 15:04

I think there are a lot of threads about the protests. So stop deflecting on to other topics.

We are currently discussing the proposed death camp?

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 15:06

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 14:58

Can I just ask honestly: do you really believe that Israel and Egypt maintain a blockade on Gaza because they just hate Palestinians - specifically the ones in Gaza, but not the ones living in Israel or New York?

Or is it, perhaps more realistically, because Gaza is governed by a terrorist organisation that has publicly, repeatedly, and proudly declared its goal to annihilate Israel, fires rockets at Israeli civilians daily, and has shown time and again that it would escalate that violence tenfold if given the means?

Because we both know the answer is b.

And if that’s the case, isn’t it disingenuous to say that “Israel needs to accept that Palestine should be free of Israeli control” - when what they’re actually controlling is whether or not Hamas is allowed to freely import weapons, coordinate attacks, and murder civilians en masse?

This isn’t an abstract debate. If Israel and Egypt lifted the blockade tomorrow, Hamas would immediately attempt to bring in more advanced weapons -supplied eagerly by Iran - and launch far more devastating attacks. You don’t need to guess what they’d do. They’ve told us. Repeatedly.

So practically speaking, Israel has no choice but to maintain some level of control over Gaza, not because it wants to - but because Gaza’s leadership has openly committed itself to Israel’s destruction.

If Gaza were peaceful, disarmed, and governed by people seeking coexistence, that control would end tomorrow. You can't possible believe otherwise. Why on earth would Israel want a blockade on a people who wished it no harm?

This statement is effectively advocating for Hamas to have unrestricted access to whatever weapons and resources they want - including those that could obliterate Tel Aviv or Haifa. If that’s not what you want to happen, then I hope you consider the full implications of what removing all Israeli control would actually enable.

And finally - can you show me a single image or video from any pro-Palestine march where demonstrators are holding up signs condemning Hamas? Criticising their war crimes? Calling for them to stop using civilians as shields or firing rockets from schools?

I ask because I work near Westminster, and these protests pass by regularly.

I’ve never seen even one example.

Never.

Not one single time.

What I have seen is that if a pro-Israel individual shows up with a sign calling out Hamas, they’re either physically attacked or arrested for being “provocative.”

Whether you support Hamas or not, I am certain the loons running by my office screaming to globalise intifadas definitely do!

@ForgesOfEmpires could you clarify what you meant by the paragraph I posted above?

MixedMetals · 08/07/2025 15:07

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 14:58

Can I just ask honestly: do you really believe that Israel and Egypt maintain a blockade on Gaza because they just hate Palestinians - specifically the ones in Gaza, but not the ones living in Israel or New York?

Or is it, perhaps more realistically, because Gaza is governed by a terrorist organisation that has publicly, repeatedly, and proudly declared its goal to annihilate Israel, fires rockets at Israeli civilians daily, and has shown time and again that it would escalate that violence tenfold if given the means?

Because we both know the answer is b.

And if that’s the case, isn’t it disingenuous to say that “Israel needs to accept that Palestine should be free of Israeli control” - when what they’re actually controlling is whether or not Hamas is allowed to freely import weapons, coordinate attacks, and murder civilians en masse?

This isn’t an abstract debate. If Israel and Egypt lifted the blockade tomorrow, Hamas would immediately attempt to bring in more advanced weapons -supplied eagerly by Iran - and launch far more devastating attacks. You don’t need to guess what they’d do. They’ve told us. Repeatedly.

So practically speaking, Israel has no choice but to maintain some level of control over Gaza, not because it wants to - but because Gaza’s leadership has openly committed itself to Israel’s destruction.

If Gaza were peaceful, disarmed, and governed by people seeking coexistence, that control would end tomorrow. You can't possible believe otherwise. Why on earth would Israel want a blockade on a people who wished it no harm?

This statement is effectively advocating for Hamas to have unrestricted access to whatever weapons and resources they want - including those that could obliterate Tel Aviv or Haifa. If that’s not what you want to happen, then I hope you consider the full implications of what removing all Israeli control would actually enable.

And finally - can you show me a single image or video from any pro-Palestine march where demonstrators are holding up signs condemning Hamas? Criticising their war crimes? Calling for them to stop using civilians as shields or firing rockets from schools?

I ask because I work near Westminster, and these protests pass by regularly.

I’ve never seen even one example.

Never.

Not one single time.

What I have seen is that if a pro-Israel individual shows up with a sign calling out Hamas, they’re either physically attacked or arrested for being “provocative.”

Whether you support Hamas or not, I am certain the loons running by my office screaming to globalise intifadas definitely do!

Gaza’s leadership has openly committed itself to Israel’s destruction

Israels leadership have openly committed themselves to Gazas destruction. Just yesterday they spoke again on their plans. Israels violence has been far, far more than ten fold the destruction of Hamas. Why arent we all having a nice calm discussion about how we will lock Israelis up?

The whole thing is fucking insane. Insane. The Israeli government are telling us their plans for ethnic cleansing(again) after flattening 90% of Gaza and people are like nah, they don't mean it, they just want Palestinians to be safe in death camps.

Hamas could get weapons to obliterate Tel Aviv so we must cage every man, woman and child. Israel have used weapons to obliterate Gaza City, Rafah, every where else and people are handing the fuckers more weapons. Insane!

OP posts:
ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 15:15

Ifeellikeateenageragain · 08/07/2025 14:46

Life in Gaza is difficult?????????

Wow.

Well, I suppose engaging in the oppression olympics is part of the necessary for some, so let's get some clarity.

Life in Gaza before October 7, 2023 was hard - but the idea that Gazans lived in uniquely unbearable conditions is a narrative built more on ideological exaggeration than objective fact.

Most people in Gaza lived in concrete homes, not tents. Many areas, especially along the coast, had multi-storey buildings, restaurants, cafés, shopping malls, wedding halls, and even private homes with swimming pools. Yes, poverty existed, but there was no mass homelessness. By contrast, in places like Yemen, Sudan, Syria, and Congo, millions live in makeshift shelters or bombed-out ruins with no infrastructure or clean water. In parts of India and Nigeria, slum conditions are unimaginably worse, with families packed into tin shacks, open sewage, and zero government support.

In terms of hunger, the markets functioned, bakeries operated, restaurants were open, and humanitarian aid came in daily. Meanwhile, in Yemen, over 17 million people face real famine. Children die from hunger every day, often unseen by international media. Sudan and Congo have similar death tolls from starvation and malnutrition, with nowhere near the same global attention. I think something like 500k kids under 5 have starved to death since the war in Sudan started.

Healthcare in Gaza, though limited, included functioning hospitals, doctors, and even a medical school. There were universities, schools, and high literacy rates. Gazans pursued degrees and careers. In Afghanistan and parts of Sudan or Nigeria, millions have no access to even basic healthcare. In Taliban-controlled areas, girls cannot go to school, and women cannot even see a male doctor without a guardian. Gaza’s education system was flawed, but it existed and was used.

Before the war, the number of Palestinians killed annually in conflict was in the low hundreds - a tragic figure, but nothing compared to the bloodbaths in Syria, where over 500,000 have been killed, or Congo, where millions have died in decades-long wars. In Sudan and Yemen, ethnic cleansing and bombing campaigns continue with barely a whisper from those who cry genocide over Gaza.

And yes, Gaza is governed by an oppressive, violent terror group. But the average Gazan could still get married, go to the beach, have a family celebration, attend university, or run a business - things utterly impossible in other places nearby that you have absolutely no interest in.

So yes, life in Gaza was “difficult.” There are also millions of people around the world suffering in far worse conditions, without cameras, hashtags, or protest marches in their name.

In my native Egypt, the reality is bleak for millions. The country has endured decades of economic hardship, corruption, and authoritarian rule. Over 30% of Egyptians live below the poverty line, with entire families surviving on a few dollars a day, often in cramped, crumbling housing with limited access to clean water or reliable electricity.

Political dissent is crushed, with thousands jailed without trial, and torture in detention is widespread. Coptic Christians are attacked frequently, including the burning of churches and killings, which have gone unpunished time and again. Women face daily harassment and are often blamed for it, and many rural girls are still subjected to FGM. Life for the average Egyptian - Muslim or Christian - is shaped by fear, economic struggle, and a sense of voicelessness under an unaccountable regime. Yet you rarely see marches or headlines about any of this.

And I’ll say this plainly: any one of the prisoners in Auschwitz would have chewed off their own arm to live the life of an average Gazan on 5 October 2023. Because Gazans had homes, schools, families, days at the beach, weddings, businesses, and a chance at being alive.

It's a shame you couldn't respond to my post in good faith and listen to what was in it.