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Conflict in the Middle East

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Israels plan for Gazas future

958 replies

MixedMetals · 07/07/2025 22:40

Defense Minister Israel Katz said Monday that he has instructed the IDF to prepare a plan to establish a "humanitarian city" on the ruins of Rafah, which would eventually house the entire population of the Gaza Strip.

According to Katz, the plan involves moving 600,000 Palestinians, primarily from the al-Muwasi area, into the new zone after security screening. Once inside, residents would not be allowed to leave, the defense minister said.

Katz added that, if conditions permit, construction of the "city" would begin during the 60-day Israel-Hamas cease-fire currently under negotiation.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-07/ty-article/.premium/defense-minister-israel-to-concentrate-all-gaza-population-in-rafah-humanitarian-zone/00000197-e56a-d1ad-ab97-e5ef764e0000

Defense minister: Israel to concentrate all Gaza population in Rafah 'humanitarian' zone

***

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-07/ty-article/.premium/defense-minister-israel-to-concentrate-all-gaza-population-in-rafah-humanitarian-zone/00000197-e56a-d1ad-ab97-e5ef764e0000

OP posts:
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38
Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 09:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Sorry what are you saying ‘No they are not’ to?

That Hamas are not Palestinians?

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 09:51

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 09:49

Sorry what are you saying ‘No they are not’ to?

That Hamas are not Palestinians?

I am saying not all Palestinians are Hamas like you said .

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 09:56

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 09:46

I don't think anyone has suggested they should "have" to leave permanently more that they could get offered the opportunity to resettle in another country after the war.

You don't seem to understand why they might want to but I do and think you might be surprised by how many do want to leave Gaza after the war if that provides better opportunities for them & their children.

Which is fair enough if they choose to leave but no one should be forced to and all that leave should have the RIght to Return to Palestine.
Realistically though for a good standard of living where do they go? Many of the surrounding countries cannot support their own population never mind a potential 2m impoverished traumatized refugees. I very much doubt the US or Europe will take them.
And there is going to be prejudice against them with attitudes like all Palestinians are Hamas, they will be ostracized.

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 09:57

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 09:51

I am saying not all Palestinians are Hamas like you said .

No I didn’t say that.

Why are you trying to deflect from what I actually did say by falsely claiming I said something I didn’t? Pretty juvenile behaviour.

It is true - Hamas are Palestinians, Palestinians conceived of and created Hamas, Palestinians elected Hamas.

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 10:00

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 09:56

Which is fair enough if they choose to leave but no one should be forced to and all that leave should have the RIght to Return to Palestine.
Realistically though for a good standard of living where do they go? Many of the surrounding countries cannot support their own population never mind a potential 2m impoverished traumatized refugees. I very much doubt the US or Europe will take them.
And there is going to be prejudice against them with attitudes like all Palestinians are Hamas, they will be ostracized.

What areas do you regard the Right of Return to Palestine covers?

DryDay · 08/07/2025 10:06

dairydebris · 08/07/2025 07:50

7 October. The biggest self own in the history of self owning nations. Wonder if Hamas are regretting what their choices have bought upon their people?

I do hope / believe lots is going on behind the scenes to try to come to a workable solution- because obviously this isnt it. Let's hope other Arab states will be part of the longer term solution. I'm not getting terribly upset about something that hasnt happened yet. Still time for Hamas to stand down and hand over control of Gaza... wonder why takers are so few on the ground?

Hamas had been terrible for the poor Gazans. Deliberately siting their rat-run of tunnels under schools and hospitals - the most vulnerable people. Just disgusting. They could have released the hostages at any stage - but no.

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 10:21

It's not for me to decide which countries should offer them asylum @Martymcfly24

I would hope that some middle eastern countries would want to help those that want to leave.

MixedMetals · 08/07/2025 10:36

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-05-28/ty-article-magazine/.premium/yes-to-transfer-82-of-jewish-israelis-back-expelling-gazans/00000197-12a4-df22-a9d7-9ef6af930000

@thethingthatshouldnotbee it won't let me quote you. More than half, 56 percent also favored expelling Palestinian citizens of Israel. And nearly half (47 percent) of respondents agreed that "when conquering an enemy city, the Israel Defense Forces should act as the Israelites did in Jericho under Joshua's command – killing all its inhabitants." which is nice. Just one big happy peace loving state who would never dream of doing something so appalling as what the government says they are going to do. It's deffo just a big misunderstanding from hysterical pro Palestinian posters who just don't understand.

Yes to transfer: 82% of Jewish Israelis back expelling Gazans

***

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-05-28/ty-article-magazine/.premium/yes-to-transfer-82-of-jewish-israelis-back-expelling-gazans/00000197-12a4-df22-a9d7-9ef6af930000

OP posts:
PaxAeterna · 08/07/2025 10:42

During the last ceasefire the Israeli government were championing the Trump Gaza plan. Now that they are close to ceasefire again, they say they will use the first phase of the ceasefire to build internment camps.

Many of you are just parroting Netanyahu for some reason. The fact is that the Palestinians will be under so many coercive elements that legally any displacement will be considered forced.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 08/07/2025 10:46

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 10:21

It's not for me to decide which countries should offer them asylum @Martymcfly24

I would hope that some middle eastern countries would want to help those that want to leave.

It would be nice if Israel didn't make Gaza completely uninhabitable in the first place. Creating a situation where people think displacing 2 million people to neighbouring countries is a positive development is messed up.

I'm amazed that some posters do not understand what ethnic cleansing is. If at the end of this conflict there is no Palestinians left in Gaza the area has been ethnically cleansed which is a war crime.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 08/07/2025 10:47

Thanks @PaxAeterna you beat me to it

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 11:01

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 08/07/2025 10:46

It would be nice if Israel didn't make Gaza completely uninhabitable in the first place. Creating a situation where people think displacing 2 million people to neighbouring countries is a positive development is messed up.

I'm amazed that some posters do not understand what ethnic cleansing is. If at the end of this conflict there is no Palestinians left in Gaza the area has been ethnically cleansed which is a war crime.

It would have been nice if Hamas had not built hundreds of miles of underground tunnels and booby trapped every building in whole neighbourhoods and thus the IDF wouldn’t need to blow them up, wouldn’t it?

How is getting people to safety and giving them refuge and a better quality of life NOT a positive development in an ongoing war situation.

What makes the Palestinian people different to any other people trapped in war zones that you think they don’t deserve safety, refuge n and a better quality of life?

1dayatatime · 08/07/2025 11:12

I see an urgency now for ordinary Gazans and opposition groups to overthrow Hamas as soon as possible and release the hostages.

Whilst Hamas remain in power there will always be a worse peace deal.

Just look at Syria where a "moderate" has taken power and international support has been flooding in.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 08/07/2025 11:31

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 11:01

It would have been nice if Hamas had not built hundreds of miles of underground tunnels and booby trapped every building in whole neighbourhoods and thus the IDF wouldn’t need to blow them up, wouldn’t it?

How is getting people to safety and giving them refuge and a better quality of life NOT a positive development in an ongoing war situation.

What makes the Palestinian people different to any other people trapped in war zones that you think they don’t deserve safety, refuge n and a better quality of life?

What makes the Palestinian people different to any other people trapped in war zones that you think they don’t deserve safety, refuge n and a better quality of life?

Everyone deserves a good quality of life and the right to seek refuge to achieve that. Just like the Ukrainians who were supported and facilitated to escape Ukraine but also supported to return when their area was safe. Likewise those that chose to stay had proper humanitarian support and access to field hospitals. What is being planned is part of a ceasefire agreement not to help Palestinians during the ongoing conflict. Why was it so difficult to get people out during the conflict if it was all about humanitarian concerns.

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 12:04

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 08/07/2025 10:46

It would be nice if Israel didn't make Gaza completely uninhabitable in the first place. Creating a situation where people think displacing 2 million people to neighbouring countries is a positive development is messed up.

I'm amazed that some posters do not understand what ethnic cleansing is. If at the end of this conflict there is no Palestinians left in Gaza the area has been ethnically cleansed which is a war crime.

It would be nice if Hamas hadn’t started a war in the first place but here we are.

My hope for the Palestinian civilians wanting peace is that they are able to find it whether that’s in Gaza or elsewhere if they choose to move out of a place that has been destroyed by 20 years of a Hamas government culminating in a land war.

MissyB1 · 08/07/2025 12:25

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 09:15

It's insulting to the people debating on this thread in good faith for you to lower the fact some support Israel to "Palestinians are brown".

If that makes you feel uncomfortable then good -it bloody well should! There is a lot of racism caught up in all of this for some people, you won't want to recognise that but its there all the same. Some people are only pro Israel because they see Palestinian as = Muslim = terrorist. That comes from racism and bigotry.

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 12:34

TryingNotToSneeze · 07/07/2025 23:08

Once inside, residents would not be allowed to leave, the defense minister said.

So a concentration camp then?

Agree this was my first thought when hearing about this. Just horrific.

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 12:42

MissyB1 · 08/07/2025 12:25

If that makes you feel uncomfortable then good -it bloody well should! There is a lot of racism caught up in all of this for some people, you won't want to recognise that but its there all the same. Some people are only pro Israel because they see Palestinian as = Muslim = terrorist. That comes from racism and bigotry.

It doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable personally as I’m not Jewish and have no family involved in the holocaust.

It makes some people upset though. Why would you not care about upsetting fellow Mumsnetters when it’s such a simple thing to ask that you don’t use the main term associated with the holocaust?

I think you’re really getting it wrong about why the people who support Israel do so. It’s not to do with Muslims it’s to do with terrorism & most of us have no sympathy towards terrorists and want them destroyed.

I had no sympathy for the IRA either tbh & had they started a war against England by killing 1,200 civilians and kidnapped many others I would have wanted them destroyed too.

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 12:45

MissyB1 · 08/07/2025 12:25

If that makes you feel uncomfortable then good -it bloody well should! There is a lot of racism caught up in all of this for some people, you won't want to recognise that but its there all the same. Some people are only pro Israel because they see Palestinian as = Muslim = terrorist. That comes from racism and bigotry.

What does “Pro-Israel” or “Pro-Palestine” even mean anymore? These labels get thrown around constantly, but when you actually dig into them, they often hide more than they reveal.

For my part, I have no issue with supporting Palestinian rights, dignity, or the aspiration for a better life. If being pro-Palestine meant simply supporting human rights for Palestinians, I’d be right there. But what’s being defended under that label today goes far beyond that.

In many cases, it involves defending or excusing the leadership in Gaza - Hamas - a group whose stated aim is the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews, to be replaced with a theocratic Islamic state that offers no civil rights to anyone, including Palestinians.

That’s not an interpretation. It’s written into their charter and confirmed by their actions - decades of suicide bombings, rocket attacks, the massacre of civilians, and the systematic indoctrination of children into a culture of hatred and martyrdom.

They don’t want peace. They want total victory, and their version of "victory" is the obliteration of a sovereign nation-state that includes Jews, Muslims, Christians, and over two million Arab citizens.

So yes, I am very much against that.

And I’m baffled by the number of people in the West who seem to have either romanticised that vision or are deliberately looking away from it.

Then there’s another kind of "Pro-Palestine" argument that exists in fantasy land - the idea of a single, binational state where everyone has equal rights, all refugees return, and everything just works out peacefully. But every poll conducted over the last twenty years, as well as every word from almost any person you speak to directly involved, tells us that this is not what the majority of Palestinians actually want.

Most do not support a Western-style liberal democracy where Jews and Arabs live side by side in peace. I am getting a bit long in the tooth but I remember the Gaza election really well because I am Egyptian by birth and it felt really important to me. I think there was some fairly moderate groups running in it, and I am not talking about New Labour or anything but more like groups that basically thought normalising relations with Israel was a good idea so people could move forward and thrive and all those groups collectively didn't even get 3% of the vote!

This isn't my opinion - this is well-documented, consistent data. So the idea that a democratic one-state solution with equal rights for all is the logical or likely outcome is a complete fiction. I am honestly not sure if that is borne of wishful thinking, western projection or just a desire to destroy Israel dressed up as something nicer - maybe a combo of all!

That leaves one version of being pro-Palestine that actually makes moral and political sense to me. It’s the version where you oppose a regime that brutalises its own people, where you don’t excuse or ignore when children are taught racism, where you reject the glorification of stabbing and martyrdom, where you don’t pretend it’s acceptable to fire rockets from hospitals or hide weapons in schools, or to pay salaries to those who’ve murdered civilians. It’s the version where you believe a future Palestinian state should be a place of civil rights, democracy, education, and peace, not a dystopia run by corrupt, violent ideologues. And that should be a universal standard, not a controversial statement.

I am sitting around waiting for the "Pro Palestine" movement to say this, but the air rings with silence.

And yes, when I compare that vision to the state of Israel- despite all of its flaws, complexities, and mistakes - I still see a functioning, diverse democracy. A place where Jews, Arabs, Druze, Christians, and others live, argue, vote, work, protest, serve in parliament, and build lives. Israel hasn’t always gotten everything right, but I’ve never doubted that the majority of Israelis want peace, stability, and a future where they and their neighbours can just get on with living.

So if I have to choose between a flawed democracy trying to survive and a violent theocracy trying to destroy it, I know where I stand. That might get me called “pro-Israel,” but I think it just makes me pro-reality, pro-human rights, and pro-peace. In an ideal world I would really like to see ALL countries have that.

This conflict has really shone a light on how lost we all are!

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 13:10

@ForgesOfEmpires do you think a two state solution would work?
One free of Hamas and the current extremists in the Israeli Government.

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 13:41

I believe a two-state solution has to work - not because it's perfect, but because there’s no viable alternative. For it to succeed, however, Palestinians must come to terms with the reality that Israel is here to stay, and there must be a serious effort to deradicalize the culture of martyrdom and glorified violence.

I think there's also a few wider issues that we need to confront.

  1. The misuse of Islam as a vehicle for political violence and oppression must end - not just for peace with Israel, but for the well-being of Palestinians themselves. Encouragingly, progress is being made through the dismantling of terror networks and the weakening of destabilising forces like Iran. While the world remains fixated on Gaza, it's worth remembering that some of the most oppressed people on earth are still women, and we do far too little to fight for their rights and dignity - in Iran, or anywhere else.

  2. There's an ideological problem in the west that made it very easy for large amounts of people to side with terrorists who are relishing the blood of their people. That was very weird to watch. We have a lot to unravel, but I think the problem runs quite deep and there needs to be a lot of thought put into how we got there.

Tooblondetooyoung · 08/07/2025 13:48

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 09:41

Since the holocaust the term "concentration camp" is mainly identified with Jews and Nazis. Is it too much to ask that people who know that that term is triggering for some people should avoid it, if they are debating in good faith?

No one is saying don't talk about the "camps" but I can understand why using that particular phrase will be triggering for some people on these threads.

If the term is triggering (which I get), then the criticism should be placed on those who are creating the concentration camp, not those who label it correctly as such.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, I'm going to call it a duck.

There's a difference between using examples of ww2 because it causes extra pain - awful, and using it because of genuine historical parallels.

Surely there has to be a line somewhere. Maybe we aren't there yet (and hopefully won't be), but immunity from comparisons has it's limits. For me genocide crosses that line.

ButtCheeks · 08/07/2025 13:51

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 12:45

What does “Pro-Israel” or “Pro-Palestine” even mean anymore? These labels get thrown around constantly, but when you actually dig into them, they often hide more than they reveal.

For my part, I have no issue with supporting Palestinian rights, dignity, or the aspiration for a better life. If being pro-Palestine meant simply supporting human rights for Palestinians, I’d be right there. But what’s being defended under that label today goes far beyond that.

In many cases, it involves defending or excusing the leadership in Gaza - Hamas - a group whose stated aim is the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews, to be replaced with a theocratic Islamic state that offers no civil rights to anyone, including Palestinians.

That’s not an interpretation. It’s written into their charter and confirmed by their actions - decades of suicide bombings, rocket attacks, the massacre of civilians, and the systematic indoctrination of children into a culture of hatred and martyrdom.

They don’t want peace. They want total victory, and their version of "victory" is the obliteration of a sovereign nation-state that includes Jews, Muslims, Christians, and over two million Arab citizens.

So yes, I am very much against that.

And I’m baffled by the number of people in the West who seem to have either romanticised that vision or are deliberately looking away from it.

Then there’s another kind of "Pro-Palestine" argument that exists in fantasy land - the idea of a single, binational state where everyone has equal rights, all refugees return, and everything just works out peacefully. But every poll conducted over the last twenty years, as well as every word from almost any person you speak to directly involved, tells us that this is not what the majority of Palestinians actually want.

Most do not support a Western-style liberal democracy where Jews and Arabs live side by side in peace. I am getting a bit long in the tooth but I remember the Gaza election really well because I am Egyptian by birth and it felt really important to me. I think there was some fairly moderate groups running in it, and I am not talking about New Labour or anything but more like groups that basically thought normalising relations with Israel was a good idea so people could move forward and thrive and all those groups collectively didn't even get 3% of the vote!

This isn't my opinion - this is well-documented, consistent data. So the idea that a democratic one-state solution with equal rights for all is the logical or likely outcome is a complete fiction. I am honestly not sure if that is borne of wishful thinking, western projection or just a desire to destroy Israel dressed up as something nicer - maybe a combo of all!

That leaves one version of being pro-Palestine that actually makes moral and political sense to me. It’s the version where you oppose a regime that brutalises its own people, where you don’t excuse or ignore when children are taught racism, where you reject the glorification of stabbing and martyrdom, where you don’t pretend it’s acceptable to fire rockets from hospitals or hide weapons in schools, or to pay salaries to those who’ve murdered civilians. It’s the version where you believe a future Palestinian state should be a place of civil rights, democracy, education, and peace, not a dystopia run by corrupt, violent ideologues. And that should be a universal standard, not a controversial statement.

I am sitting around waiting for the "Pro Palestine" movement to say this, but the air rings with silence.

And yes, when I compare that vision to the state of Israel- despite all of its flaws, complexities, and mistakes - I still see a functioning, diverse democracy. A place where Jews, Arabs, Druze, Christians, and others live, argue, vote, work, protest, serve in parliament, and build lives. Israel hasn’t always gotten everything right, but I’ve never doubted that the majority of Israelis want peace, stability, and a future where they and their neighbours can just get on with living.

So if I have to choose between a flawed democracy trying to survive and a violent theocracy trying to destroy it, I know where I stand. That might get me called “pro-Israel,” but I think it just makes me pro-reality, pro-human rights, and pro-peace. In an ideal world I would really like to see ALL countries have that.

This conflict has really shone a light on how lost we all are!

THANK YOU

hellohellooo · 08/07/2025 13:52

Guavafish1 · 08/07/2025 07:18

It’s a disgusting plan by disgusting humans…

X1 million

Martymcfly24 · 08/07/2025 13:53

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 13:41

I believe a two-state solution has to work - not because it's perfect, but because there’s no viable alternative. For it to succeed, however, Palestinians must come to terms with the reality that Israel is here to stay, and there must be a serious effort to deradicalize the culture of martyrdom and glorified violence.

I think there's also a few wider issues that we need to confront.

  1. The misuse of Islam as a vehicle for political violence and oppression must end - not just for peace with Israel, but for the well-being of Palestinians themselves. Encouragingly, progress is being made through the dismantling of terror networks and the weakening of destabilising forces like Iran. While the world remains fixated on Gaza, it's worth remembering that some of the most oppressed people on earth are still women, and we do far too little to fight for their rights and dignity - in Iran, or anywhere else.

  2. There's an ideological problem in the west that made it very easy for large amounts of people to side with terrorists who are relishing the blood of their people. That was very weird to watch. We have a lot to unravel, but I think the problem runs quite deep and there needs to be a lot of thought put into how we got there.

I am what you define as Pro Palestinian and I agree with you regarding the two state solution. By contrast however I think Israelis also need to accept that Palestine is here to stay completely free from Israeli control (whilst also agreeing that there should be no question that Israel is also here to stay)
I completely agree that all terror networks need to be dismantled and the support of governments of terrorists to destabilize the region needs to stop.

However I do think that you completely missed the mark with the support from the west. I don't know anyone who supports the ideals and actions of Hamas instead focusing on the suffering of innocent Palestinians (and Sudanese/Afghanis etc)