Why do you get all the knobs at Glastonbury?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33514nryy1o

Kneecap and now this.....There are some absolute fits playing at Glastonbury and I am sure there are some virtue signalling loons cheering this.

Hope turnpike throw the book at them.

Touché. I do respect your right to a different opinion than mine and wish you a pleasant afternoon. I’m angry, but only because I care deeply.

What do you think from the river to the sea means? Why do you think there are no Jews in Gaza? Why do you think these groups never call for the end of Hamas?

Who do you think are beind the pro Palestine movements?

(hint- pro Palestine is a mis nomer)

I get it, being told you’re in anyway linked to injustice is uncomfortable. But where are the double standards? Of course it’s incomparable, one side is under siege and we’re a democracy with the backing of major global powers. You’re also effectively arguing that any action, protest, accountability is redundant if you didn’t vote for the current government.

Whether you call it complicity, accountability, or moral responsibility- the reality is, the UK is helping fund and protect a military operation that’s killing thousands of civilians. That’s the issue. Everything else is a distraction.

@dairydebris are you arguing that Gazan’s should be held responsible for Hamas?

No, I'm arguing for the opposite.

From the river to the sea is literally about land stolen from the Palestinians - their country is divided by another country that keeps expanding its territory. It’s about freedom, equal rights, human rights. It’s about not waking up to a settler in your house with a gun saying this is my house, this is my land.

It is interesting to see posters who constantly defend the murder of Palestinian children getting offended by words. Words are less offensive to me than bombs!

1dayatatime · Today 14:19
Bit of a tangent but for a festival that prides itself on it's green credentials and social justice there is a load of private helicopter traffic in and out of Glastonbury today

It’s been going on for days - it reminds me of those climate change conferences when loads of people arrive in private jets.

This is pure nonsense. Pro Palestinian groups have not being going out murdering people - you know who have been murdering people - the IDF! Look at body counts 0 versus 56k+ and see who may be wishing death on a group of people.

Your response of "I condemn the terrorist attacks of 7th October, but what about ..." neatly illustrates the problem here and is actually an attempt to justify it.

That's not what I said why did you twist it?

But aren't you arguing that people in a functional democracy should be held responsible for their government's decisions?

If so, isn't that extremely problematic?
Should all Americans be held responsible for the orange shit show? I don't think so? Should all Russians be held accountable for Putin? I don't think so? Should all French people be held accountable for the decision to ban the Burka? I don't think so? What about Indians? Should they be held accountable for their government's recent strikes on Pakistani soil? What about if the strikes had killed a lot of civilians? Would then Indians in Kerala who didn't vote be held accountable for the situation in Kashmir?
You can see where I'm going.

By all means protest. I respect your right to do so. But you are not accountable for your government's actions.

Well, we’re in agreement on that point then. But you should recognise that we have a responsibility to act when our government is complicit in the killing of civilians. We live in a democracy. We have the freedom to vote, protest, campaign, organise, and demand change. You can strongly oppose the actions of the IDF without holding any hatred toward Jewish people.

I don’t agree with the way the chant was worded at Glastonbury, as it could be interpreted as a call for violence. But I also don’t think we should let this distract from the very real reasons people are angry, or silence legitimate protest over mass civilian deaths.

No. We have a right to protest if we see fit. We are lucky to have this right. Remember, Gazans don't. But that isn't to be confused with responsibility for our governments actions. That is a very dark road to go down.

So tired of this stolen land nonsense. Most of it was legally purchased from absentee farmers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

In a functional democracy the government is accountable to the people. In the UK, we have the power to vote, protest, engage in civic discourse, and influence policy through various democratic mechanisms. This means that, collectively, we do share responsibility for the government’s actions, especially when they support or tolerate harmful policies or leaders. If citizens do nothing while their government commits harmful acts, they share in the responsibility for enabling those actions.

I can see why you’ve brought up examples like the French burka ban and Indian strikes in Kashmir, but these actually illustrate why citizens do share some responsibility in a democracy!

The French burka ban for example, wasn’t just a random government decision- it reflects broader public attitudes and political will. If the majority of French citizens supported or stayed silent about laws restricting religious freedom, they collectively enable that policy. Democracy means governments act based on the society’s values and priorities. So while not every individual is directly responsible, citizens share democratic responsibility by either supporting or opposing such laws.

Similarly, in India, the government’s actions in Kashmir are shaped by elected officials, who are accountable to voters across the country. Even if people in Kerala didn’t vote or directly support those strikes, they are still part of the democratic system that empowers those leaders. Choosing not to engage, protest, or demand accountability contributes to the status quo.

The point is, democratic responsibility isn’t about blaming every person for every decision, but about recognising that government actions happen with public consent (whether active or passive). Citizens have power and influence through their votes, voices, and actions. Ignoring or detaching yourself from what your government does doesn’t erase your role in shaping its policies.

So accountability in a democracy is complex and collective, not simplistic or individually punitive.

It’s not ‘people are fully responsible or not responsible at all’ ?

lol. Like Joe blogs on NMW gives a shite about supplying Israel while Islamic nut jobs like Hamas are no1 on the terrorist list in their homeland

It’s a lot more complex than that.
These purchases often led to the displacement of Arab tenant farmers and in some cases, entire villages were depopulated. Some evicted families received compensation, others didn’t.

Glibly repeating that land was stolen hardly reflects any complexity though, does it? Its a massive over simplification at best and a downright lie at worst but it carries huge weight in the central debate around the right of Jews to live in their homeland.

I guess I just dont agree, sorry.

I agree we have the power to protest etc, and most importantly the power to say no about how our government acts by ultimately voting them out.

But we elect people to make decisions on our behalf. We dont make those actual decisions ourselves. So although we may protest and make our dissatisfaction clear by our votes, I don't agree we hold responsibility for what our government actually does.

I also think we as civilians never know the full picture. For example, Israel is our ally. The relationship benefits us in some way too, probably in ways that you and I aren't aware of. I'd put real money on Israeli intelligence helping to stop the recent planned Iranian terrorist attack. So no, I dont take responsibility for my government actions. And I accept I dont know it all, and I'm thankful that I never have to make a decision about what is an acceptable levels of violence after a terror attack. It's outside my skill set.

Happy to agree to disagree on the responsibility bit.

I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you saying that people were just blindly joining in with being pro-Palestine at Glastonbury without really caring or understanding?

Saying that land was bought from absentee landlords was a massive oversimplification!

They're really not. In fact they've been held to far lower standards.

If they were tenants it wasn’t their land.

I just think it’s wild that anyone can argue that the actions taken in Palestine are reasonable. Civilians- women and children- have borne the worst of this conflict. I’d argue that we share a moral collective responsibility to speak out and protest against the denial of basic rights, like access to food, to thousands of innocent babies- and that trumps whatever ‘special’ arrangements we have with Israel.