Why do you get all the knobs at Glastonbury?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33514nryy1o

Kneecap and now this.....There are some absolute fits playing at Glastonbury and I am sure there are some virtue signalling loons cheering this.

Hope turnpike throw the book at them.

At a stretch you could say those in our government that pushed for taking those positions are complicit. That doesn't make you or I complicit.

If you really believe you or I are complicit then you'd also have to accept the average Gazan being complicit with Hamas' actions on 7 October, which I firmly reject.

Which is it?

Do you mean Hamas stay but are disarmed somehow?

Is that something that can be done for sure and they’ll stick to

I don’t believe that criticising or opposing the IDF is antisemitic. Antisemitism targets Jewish people as a group, not a state or a military institution. Holding the IDF accountable for its actions, especially when hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed, is not hate- it’s a demand for justice.

That said, I do agree that calling for violence weakens the credibility and moral ground of legitimate protest. Language matters, especially if we want people to actually listen.

However, maybe supporters of the IDF should reflect on why so many people feel pushed to the edge- and how we’ve reached this point.

I didn't see people who are "pro Israel" (like its some kind of pathetic football match where you support one side or another...dreadful phrase ) screaming death to Hamas in the crowd. Or through the streets of London. Jews generally don't do that as a rule in the UK.

Why are you conflating pro Israel and the supporting of a foreign government and army with Jews? Loads of the posters here for instance who spend hours of their time defending the killing of kids aren't Jewish.

There is an important distinction between state-level complicity and individual responsibility. When I refer to the UK being “complicit,” I am specifically referencing the actions and policies of the British government and institutions not individual civilians. However, in a democratic society, the population holds a level of indirect accountability through electoral and civic mechanisms, particularly when the state engages in internationally significant actions.

The UK has continued to issue arms export licenses to Israel during the ongoing conflict. According to the UK government’s own data, between 2015 and 2022, over £400 million worth of military equipment was approved for export to Israel, including components for aircraft, targeting systems, and other weaponry. British-manufactured components are known to be used in F-35 fighter jets, which have been deployed in aerial operations over Gaza.

Additionally, the UK has repeatedly abstained or voted against UN resolutions calling for immediate ceasefires or independent investigations into potential war crimes. This provides a degree of diplomatic shielding that weakens international accountability mechanisms.

The argument that this would equate to “the average Gazan being complicit in Hamas’s actions” is a false equivalence. Gaza is under a military blockade and operates without full democratic processes; Hamas’s control is not equivalent to a liberal democratic system where citizens have both the right and practical capacity to influence government policy. Palestinians in Gaza cannot freely assemble, vote Hamas out of power, or speak against them without fear of reprisal. By contrast, UK citizens have freedom of expression, access to information, and the ability to engage in democratic and legal processes to oppose their government’s foreign policy.

Therefore, raising concerns, protesting, and holding the UK government accountable is not only valid but necessary. Silence or disengagement, particularly when aware of ongoing international law violations, contributes to a broader system of passive complicity, not in terms of moral blame, but in the failure to interrupt or resist enabling mechanisms.

The IDF is the army of Israel. Same.as the British army is the army of the UK. The government gives the orders and the army is sworn to protect the country. If war crimes are committed by individuals they would be prosecuted like any other army. Why is the IDF held to higher standards than Hamas fighters that hold the hostages?

You don’t have to be a ‘supporter’ though to agree with the organisers that it was incitement to hatred and violence.

ere is an important distinction between state-level complicity and individual responsibility. When I refer to the UK being “complicit,” I am specifically referencing the actions and policies of the British government and institutions not individual civilians. However, in a democratic society, the population holds a level of indirect accountability through electoral and civic mechanisms, particularly when the state engages in internationally significant actions.

The UK has continued to issue arms export licenses to Israel during the ongoing conflict. According to the UK government’s own data, between 2015 and 2022, over £400 million worth of military equipment was approved for export to Israel, including components for aircraft, targeting systems, and other weaponry. British-manufactured components are known to be used in F-35 fighter jets, which have been deployed in aerial operations over Gaza.

Additionally, the UK has repeatedly abstained or voted against UN resolutions calling for immediate ceasefires or independent investigations into potential war crimes. This provides a degree of diplomatic shielding that weakens international accountability mechanisms.

The argument that this would equate to “the average Gazan being complicit in Hamas’s actions” is a false equivalence. Gaza is under a military blockade and operates without full democratic processes; Hamas’s control is not equivalent to a liberal democratic system where citizens have both the right and practical capacity to influence government policy. Palestinians in Gaza cannot freely assemble, vote Hamas out of power, or speak against them without fear of reprisal. By contrast, UK citizens have freedom of expression, access to information, and the ability to engage in democratic and legal processes to oppose their government’s foreign policy.

Therefore, raising concerns, protesting, and holding the UK government accountable is not only valid but necessary. Silence or disengagement, particularly when aware of ongoing international law violations, contributes to a broader system of passive complicity, not in terms of moral blame, but in the failure to interrupt or resist enabling mechanisms.

Lmao, why is a countries military held to a higher standard than a proscribed terrorist organisation. The rubbish people come out with to defend a foreign military is astonishing.

My point was in response to your earlier point. Those that gob off in an anti semitic manner at Glastonbury don't seem.to be anti any other war.

This doesnt apply to the other "side"..People who are pro Israel don't scream hate in a anti-Gazan manner at Glastonbury.

They seem to be held to higher standards than any other military full stop. Why?

Well yes from the footage it does look like the UN with all the flags. Except many of them are memes or funny lines. Palestinian flags featured widely this year but in 2022 the place was awash with Ukrainian flags. I don’t remember anyone getting enraged about it or asking us to look at other countries that are suffering instead.

There is no doubt that there is a huge outpouring of support for Gaza right now. People are horrified by what’s happening and horrified by the west’s complicity in the horror.

Is this AI?

Because it all makes sense but I can't pick out your specific point. Its very indirect, I've noticed thats a feature of AI content.

I dont hold myself accountable for high level defensive and strategic government decision making. I dont hold you accountable either. I don't hold Gazan mother's accountable for Hamas actions on 7 October. And marching might make you feel better and make you feel heard, but youre kidding yourself if you're saying that international alliances and defence decisions refer back to what Mum's on the streets are calling for.

And I’m not disagreeing with that. As I said, maybe the people fixating on this as the main issue- rather than the thousands of children who have been slaughtered… should reflect on how we’ve got to this point.

Yeah goons like this never 'gob off'. Never incite hate.

It's not the UKs business.
But as discussed upthread the fact Jews are frightened in the UK is our business. And the idiots at.Glastonbury contributed to this. The fact that anti semitic chants were heard and then broadcast by the BBC should disgust all right thinking people. I'm amazed at the amount of anti semites coming out of the woodwork in the last year or so. Lumping a group of people together, giving them the same charactistics, equating being Jewish with being responsible for Israel's actions.

The line has been blurred and people should take a good look at their motivation for taking a particular "side".without recognising there are two sides in this conflict. Nuance has been lost to extremism. Therefore there will sadly be no solution or end to this.

Emily Eavis was very careful NOT to say that. She said they crossed a line. I’m only pointing it out because you keep banging on about it and it’s not what she said. You have interpreted it that way.

It's quite literally the UKs business when they are making a profit from the killing of Palestinian kids.

@dairydebris i hate when people say that. Have you never been involved in any kind of a movement for change at all? Do you just shrug your shoulders and say oh well it’s nothing to do with me. Do you have no value on the right to peacefully protest?

There is a study that shows that non violent movements are twice as likely to succeed as violent movements.

A movement for change based on anti semitism is not one that good people should be joining.

No, I did some googling on state vs. Individual complicity.

The original point I was making: Of course I’m not saying that every individual in the UK is personally responsible for what’s happening in Gaza. However, we are complicit as a country. As citizens in a democracy, we have a duty to hold that government to account- especially when it’s enabling mass human rights violations. It’s a shame that you don’t view it like that or think that you have any power to enable change.

What are you talking about here. I get Emily Eavis statement could make you feel uncomfortable as you are pro what happened.

She does use those words if you get past ‘crossed the line’

"Their chants very much crossed a line and we are urgently reminding everyone involved in the production of the Festival that there is no place at Glastonbury for antisemitism, hate speech or incitement to violence," she wrote.

We've already discussed this upthread.

I think we concluded collective responsibility wasn't a good thing.

Bit of a tangent but for a festival that prides itself on it's green credentials and social justice there is a load of private helicopter traffic in and out of Glastonbury today: