People on the Madleen to be deported, awaiting court.

[Nowayyousure]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y264x3nnno

Seems some activists including G Thumberg signed to say they wanted to leave immediately and are home or on way home.

Some didn't and need to be deported to their home countries. No.idea how long court takes, assume Israel will want to.just get rid, having other more pressing matters to deal with.

Greta saying they were taken and held in the bottom of boat etc and worried for them.

What did this stunt cost in money, in court fees, to the climate in air journeys home, in wasted consular time, Sweden issued a comment on that, in talking about them rather than Gazans.

Wow that's obscene. So propaganda now is watching what a disgustingattackHamas launched on innocentpeople. She really swallowed the Hamas narrative. It's possible for both Israeli and Gazans to be victims.

We don't know the details yet. But, I don't know why Israel was trying to force the crew of The Madleen to watch a film about October 7th. Because no matter how completely horrific the events of October 7th were (and they absolutely were, and I condemn them totally) it doesn't justify starving an entire civilian population - innocent people who had nothing to do with October 7th.
The illegal west bank settlers have been inflicting 7th Oct style horrors on the Palestinians for years (I've heard eye witness accounts so horrific I couldn't bear to write them down) but how many hardcore Zionists from outside the region would want to watch a video of those things?
I'm just very disappointed in the human race generally at this point. We're a mad species! We could make a choice to love and forgive, and the world could be such a wonderful place. It's all very sad, for all innocent Israelis and Palestinians who've suffered 😢

And there we go again. I completely condemn the occupation of the West Bank but it is not comparable to 7 October. Why do people think you can just say this sort of stuff?

If you are committing a crime in international waters then you can be arrested and detained from international waters. Trying to break a legal blockade is a crime. Asking if people would be supportive of the Houthis if they dragged people off a ship in international waters and detained them in Yemen is irrelevant because the Houthis are not a government and the people they have taken captive in that scenario are not alleged to have committed any crime.

As for describing the Houthis firing missiles as 'tit-for-tat,' the Houthis have reintroduced slavery in Yemen; I'm not sure why some people seem to have a sneaking admiration for them or their fight against a liberal democracy.

Well, as explained, on an individual level I feel equally sorry for all innocent victims caught up in the situation.
But, some of the things the illegal settlers have been doing are utterly horrifying, and over a sustained period, and very similar acts of violence against individuals as happened on October 7th. Really terrible things. What happened on October 7th was horrific, and I think the fact it happened in one day made it especially notable for people. But Palestinians have been suffering horror for 77 years.
I don't actually like to debate who's suffered more, because it's all awful.
My point earlier was that showing Greta Thunberg and co a video of October 7th was unreasonable, as the genocide is unjustified no matter how awful October 7th was. So I don't know why the Israeli authorities were trying to show it to them? I definitely wouldn't want to watch it. I know unbelievably awful things happened that day, and my imagination is too vivid as it is. It's offensive to suggest that those bringing food to innocent Gazan children should watch something so horrible, as it suggests they condone Hamas' actions. Which I'm sure they don't.

Why are you sure they don't? There is ample evidence that there were Hamas and Hezbollah apologists on that boat. Please look into it, the evidence is widely available. The events of 7 October cannot be compared and to try and suggest they can feeds into the narrative of 7 October being legitimate resistance. You say you dont want to compare, and yet that is what you're doing

@SharonEllis sorry but your last comment suggesting comparing Oct 7th feeds a narrative it's legitimate resistance, is wrong, and actually very hurtful. I'm a pacifist. I oppose all violence. I don't think I could have been clearer that I condemn October 7th. I was and am totally and utterly horrified by it.
I'm also totally and utterly horrified by atrocities committed by illegal settlers, the IDF and ultimately the Israeli government.
I'm a Northern Irish protestant. I know how awful it is when people try to justify terrorism. There's never a justification. Doesn't mean the British army at that time didn't do terrible things that also had no justification.
I condemn all violence.

I'm not sure why people can't respond to posts without snarky insinuations of terrorist support.

Being factual and saying that Israel attacked Yemen and the Houthis fired a missile back isn't showing admiration for them. It's just stating what is happening, both Israel and the Houthis are attacking each other.

You can make your point without accusing people of crimes which supporting a terrorist organisation is. I've been very clear that I think all sides should stick to the law. To be even clearer I condemn Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah and the Israeli government. All of them have broken International law and caused untold pain and suffering for innocent people.

@SharonEllis also (sorry, I've been triggered) to turn it round, it could be said that comparing 77 years of oppression the Palestinians have suffered (and terrible atrocities were committed during the Nakba) feeds into a narrative that the current genocide is legitimate self-defence. I wouldn't accuse you of that though.
Oct 7th wasn't legitimate resistance. Israel's genocide of Gazans now is not legitimate self-defence. Genocide is genocide. Those supporting the Israeli government now are on completely the wrong side of history.

I shouldn't really post on here. It's so easy to be misunderstood, and people seem to like to catch you out for some reason? It doesn't achieve anything and I just find it all very upsetting 😔

It's not factual to say "Being factual and saying that Israel attacked Yemen and the Houthis fired a missile back isn't showing admiration for them. It's just stating what is happening, both Israel and the Houthis are attacking each other."

That's factually incorrect. The Houthis started attacking Israel some time ago (have a google about their starting drone attacks and the Red Sea crisis) and Israel defended itself. The Houthis must really love these westerners who spread the incorrect narrative that Israel attacked them first so they are hitting back. Well done 👏

Meanwhile, missile(s) launched at Israel overnight from Yemam.

This is what I was replying to as well you know. What I said was factual in relation to this.

I'm sure you are right and the Houthis are all sat around their phones on mumsnet whooping with glee 🙄

Again with the terrorist supporting nonsense. If you don't ignore everything Israel does then you support terrorism despite the fact that the Israeli government themselves support terrorism.

Do all of the people who support Israel ever ask themselves if that means they are supporting terrorist supporters so perhaps that makes them terrorist supporters? Or is it like the Israeli government only certain types of terrorism are a problem?

So much of the mess in the Middle East is rooted in the aftermath of Western imperialism. After WWI and the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Britain and France carved up the region with zero regard for the people living there drawing borders that shoved rival groups together and split others apart.

Then there’s Iran in 1953, when the UK and US toppled the country’s first democratically elected leader over oil. Skip ahead to the Iraq War: dodgy dossiers, no WMD just chaos and a power vacuum that fuelled extremisma and 100s of thosuands dead. Don’t even get me started on the Suez Crisis an embarrassing imperial throwback where an independent Egyot wanted control of it's prize assett .

And while we’re at it, let’s not forget Oman, where Britain ran a secret war for years to prop up a compliant regime. It’s been coups, cover-ups, and control for oil and influence, and we’re all still dealing with the consequences and the poisoned fruit of the trees we planted back then. You can be as despotic as you like so long as you don’t threaten Western interests and accept US hegemony; otherwise, expect us to try to destroy you and install a pliant puppet regime or be branded part of the ‘axis of evil.’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23762970

These countries would all be peace loving living side by side if it wasn't for those bloody westerners eh ... do you think one day some of the mess in the Middle East might get attributed to people in the Middle East, it's as if they have no agency over themselves. There is the small problem of differences between Shia and Sunni or opposition to leaders in Yeman, or rivalry or competing ideas in other countries, there's a bit more to it then the simplistic, child like narrative of the West fault. I've heard that comment from students and then asked a few simple questions about which countries are where and the geography alone eludes many, let alone religious differences etc. Hey Ho it's fashionable to blame the West, although I agree that the West has added to the problems. Just let them fight amongst themselves, I'm sure some of the leaders and terrorist groups would manage that quite well.

There’s a classic Pontius Pilate washing of hands here in our retreat from empire, where we practiced divide and rule and looted local resources, we left power vacuums and chaos across many parts of the world, all wrapped up in a British shrug that the natives just weren’t capable of governing themselves. Claiming otherwise is a childish oversimplification that ignores the complex realities and long-lasting consequences of those actions. But people don’t want to wrestle with liberal guilt and hand-wringing when simpler, more convenient nationalist narratives are easier to swallow they just want to wash their hands of responsibility. And after all, Israel looks back thousands of years to assert its agency, so surely a few decades of honest reflection shouldn’t be too much of a stretch.

You can see from my reply I addressed your comment directly.

I never said that "If you don't ignore everything Israel does then you support terrorism despite the fact that the Israeli government themselves support terrorism." You really are tying yourself into knots. Stop making things up and perhaps just try to comment on the point being made, it's a bit easier that way.

Who said the Houthis are sat on their phones whooping with glee, being a little childish now. It is ok on mumsnet to point out where people make factual errors, we all do.

Me making things up? Because I pointed out that before the Houthis fired a missile at Israel yesterday Israel attacked a Yemeni port I was accused of helping the Houthis along and being a terrorist supporter. Literally what I did was not ignore something Israel did and I am accused of supporting terrorism.

Meanwhile the Israeli government are actually supporting terrorism and not one of the people going around calling every second poster here a terrorist supporter seems to be condemning that. Perhaps you could turn your pointing finger at them for a minute instead of using it on every poster here that says something you don't like.

Yes I'm cool with Israel intercepting a group headed to a war zone with a tiny amount of 'aid' and sending them home to safety, unharmed and fed.

Oh yes, I am also glad this most powerful army was able to protect itself against all the contents of this vessel too.

I agree the issue is complex and there have been many mistakes over the years. I also think that people in the area need to be held account for their damage to their own people too. It helps no one. When Hamas started the recent conflict they were joyous. The IDF struck back on behalf of Israel defending itself. It's gone on far too long and far too many innocents have been killed on both sides. However, Netanyahu won't stop until Hamas go and Hamas won't go. If Hamas at least went then more people would condemn Netanyahu. With Hams still there, there is the feeling by some that Hamas will aim to regroup and come back. When people shout for The Houthis, sing chants that are seen as anti Jewish, march for Palestinians but do not shout for hostage release or Hamas to go then it sends strong messages, maybe interpreted differently to what they might mean, who knows. I wouldn't get on a ship with a man who attended a terrorist leaders funeral and called him a great man praising him. I think some people don't actually consider things.

READ the words 'sending them home to safety, unharmed and fed'..

It's such a short sentence and strange that you misinterpreted it to assume that it meant that 'this most powerful army was able to protect itself'. Never said it wasn't. Odd that you couldn't read just a simple sentence and understand that?

(Caveat -- Obviously if English isn't your first language or you struggle with reading comprehension or a learning skill then that could explain it. I did try to keep the sentence short and easy though..... ) I'll try harder to keep sentences short and simple in future.

It's like pulling teeth. I'll wish you a good day and leave it at that.

I'll take my pointing finger and leave you to it. Have a lovely day. Hopefully you have the chance to google The Houthis and what they are about and how they treat their own people. Or maybe not? It is worth a look though. Hopefully some people (not saying you) who have previously been shouting for the Houthis to turn boats around realise how many people they kill with their attacks in the Red Sea and think of the poor people of Yeman who they terrorise.

I know about the Houthis, which is why I have condemned them on this thread. It is possible to recognise that both parties involved in something are disgusting and it is the innocent civillians that suffer. Not everything has to be good guy and bad guy. Sometimes both are gross and when it comes to the Israeli government and the Houthis I think that is true.

English is my first language. Mockery is my third.. Didn't land well, much like the Madleen.

We need that laughing emoji back - it's urgent.