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Conflict in the Middle East

Heartbreaking news report from Gaza - Dr receives bodies of her children

786 replies

Applenation · 24/05/2025 23:27

Many of you will already have read about this. Paediatric specialist Dr Alaa al-Najjar was on duty when the bodies of nine of her 10 children were received by her in the hospital, after a strike in Khan Younis hit her home.

This report just stopped me in my tracks. I don't know what to say beyond this. I cannot stop thinking about this poor woman tonight.

er children killed by a strike in Khan Younis. Guardian link

OP posts:
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38
Stripes56 · 03/06/2025 21:39

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 03/06/2025 21:34

The thing is I have not heard anyone say “oh Assad is a great man” if they did I would be posting data and links to articles that show that he is a war criminal who brutally murdered his own people. If anyone said “all the rebels in Syria are great” I would explain how there are 20+ different groups and some of them are pretty awful too. Happy to talk about Syria and the blatant human rights abuses there, the complexity of the situation etc…

Again if anyone defended the Taliban in Afghanistan or indeed the British and US governments who abandoned people to the Taliban, many of whom had been employed by the UK and US and were certain to be executed. Honestly I have had huge rants and cried tears for those poor people and am still very angry at how the west abandoned them.

It is largely agreed in the west (apart from a small number of extremists) that Assad is a criminal, the Taliban are criminals etc… we don’t have boards dedicated to debating it as we would all just be agreeing with each other. The figures from these conflicts are not disputed, the murdered are universally recognised as innocent victims. The thousands of images of people tortured to death in Syria was never called fake or Syriawood. The problem lies with Israel’s manipulation of the media, shutting off a war zone to international press and then denying the testimony of doctors, amputees, UN workers, journalists, victims… The problem lies in justifying the death of children, debating the death tolls and attacking the UN, Amnesty International, most major newspapers. Israel is committing war crimes and spending millions on gaslighting anyone who calls them out on it.

Thank you for your explanation

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 21:41

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 03/06/2025 21:34

The thing is I have not heard anyone say “oh Assad is a great man” if they did I would be posting data and links to articles that show that he is a war criminal who brutally murdered his own people. If anyone said “all the rebels in Syria are great” I would explain how there are 20+ different groups and some of them are pretty awful too. Happy to talk about Syria and the blatant human rights abuses there, the complexity of the situation etc…

Again if anyone defended the Taliban in Afghanistan or indeed the British and US governments who abandoned people to the Taliban, many of whom had been employed by the UK and US and were certain to be executed. Honestly I have had huge rants and cried tears for those poor people and am still very angry at how the west abandoned them.

It is largely agreed in the west (apart from a small number of extremists) that Assad is a criminal, the Taliban are criminals etc… we don’t have boards dedicated to debating it as we would all just be agreeing with each other. The figures from these conflicts are not disputed, the murdered are universally recognised as innocent victims. The thousands of images of people tortured to death in Syria was never called fake or Syriawood. The problem lies with Israel’s manipulation of the media, shutting off a war zone to international press and then denying the testimony of doctors, amputees, UN workers, journalists, victims… The problem lies in justifying the death of children, debating the death tolls and attacking the UN, Amnesty International, most major newspapers. Israel is committing war crimes and spending millions on gaslighting anyone who calls them out on it.

I get what you are saying. But if Israel -Palestine got the same amount of attention as those other conflicts than we wouldn't be talking about it and you wouldn't be hearing my opinion on it. As basically nobody would be discussing it. And it certainty wouldn't dominate the news.

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 21:43

ssd · 03/06/2025 21:37

Again, this is your opinion based on finding an article that supports your views.
That isn't proof.

Ok. What would constitute proof in your eyes? If I shared an internal memo by Hamas admitting all of this. I came close by sharing an article from an Arab website.

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 21:46

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 03/06/2025 18:00

Not much point debating this further with you there appears to be a lack of some basic criteria thinking skills

Deflection

ssd · 03/06/2025 21:52

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 21:43

Ok. What would constitute proof in your eyes? If I shared an internal memo by Hamas admitting all of this. I came close by sharing an article from an Arab website.

I don't know if you are bring deliberately obtuse in order to convince me a random article you found online is proof of your claims. But if you are, its not working.

You made this claim

"Somebody filmed that footage from within the Gaza Strip. That person is affiliated with Hamas. The Gazans being interviewed would have known it is for foreign consumption."

Yet you have no proof.

So it is your opinion, nothing more. Like i said already.

Stripes56 · 03/06/2025 22:07

ssd · 03/06/2025 20:54

No, i thought the Israeli spokesman was brilliant. He parroted everything Krishnan expected him to say and couldn't answer any questions Krishnan put to him eg. If the IDF opened fire on people trying to get aid because these people were acting in a threatening manor, did the people have weapons? No? Then what exactly constitutes a threatening manor? Of course the spokesman couldn't answer because there is no answer.

The Israeli spokesman did very well to defend Israeli actions. I thought he really started to stumble when it came to the issue of letting in international journalists and their killing of journalists. Basically- Israel has no interest in this. This suggested it’s their version of truth and only this they want out there. Everything else is labelled as coming from Hamas operatives.

Problem for Israeli government and IDF is that people are now questioning their integrity - so even when they do provide accurate evidence - people are inclined to not believe them. Especially when it’s dodgy videos where it’s not clear what’s happening.

ssd · 03/06/2025 22:08

Quoted directly from the BBC news tonight, before showing footage from inside Gaza, specifically of people trying to access aid

"Israel doesn't allow international journalists including the BBC to report from inside Gaza, but we rely on trusted local freelancers"

Yet @Biscuitsformeandyou knows better.

ssd · 03/06/2025 22:12

And the video shown where Israel claims they have footage of hamas firing on the people trying to get aid on Sunday has been provan to come from a completely different location.

So more lies.

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 22:12

ssd · 03/06/2025 21:52

I don't know if you are bring deliberately obtuse in order to convince me a random article you found online is proof of your claims. But if you are, its not working.

You made this claim

"Somebody filmed that footage from within the Gaza Strip. That person is affiliated with Hamas. The Gazans being interviewed would have known it is for foreign consumption."

Yet you have no proof.

So it is your opinion, nothing more. Like i said already.

You are not worth my time.

ssd · 03/06/2025 22:26

Is that your proof then?

Whatsinanamehey · 03/06/2025 23:21

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 20:59

I suspect that the IDF simply has not told him. I know you won't believe this, but Israel doesn't really prioritise this type of media handling. But he was terrible even taking that into account.

Israel spend so much money on Hasbara or PR, Whatever you want to call it but all their spokespeople still do such a shitty job in their interviews. That's because no matter how hard you try, you can't sanitise war crimes or a genocide.

AIBUHere · 03/06/2025 23:22

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 03/06/2025 19:44

It is the current strategy to deny war crimes - attack the international press! The other day it was the children are child soldiers, before that they are human shields, now the press are all in bed with Hamas - liars the lot of them!

Deny - we didn’t do it, Fake news!!
Attack - Victims are all Hamas, child soldiers, human shields, international broadsheets and news channels are all biased
Reverse Victim and Offender - Anti Semitic, thousands of years of oppression, attacking Israel because everyone always singles out Israel.

Can you deny the countless photos of dead bodies, starving babies, children with missing legs??? The Economist estimate that 1 in 20 of Gaza’s population has been killed. They believe the death toll is grossly UNDER reported and is actually between 77k and 109k dead. This is because people aren’t included in the figures if they are still under rubble or are unidentifiable. These figures do not include people who succumb to their injuries at a later date, or get sepsis, or starve or die due to the embargo denying them medication like insulin. They explained how the analysed and compared data to arrive at these numbers.

How is it the multiple western governments, major international aid agencies, the UN, the ICC are all under the mistaken belief that people are being unjustly and cruelly slaughtered, that war crimes are being committed. But you have some insight that these major agencies didn’t uncover in the investigations - you should probably contact them and give them your overwhelming body of evidence. There is a genocide trial on the horizon, I am sure they would love to hear your proof!

Over a year ago Irish Barrister Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh gave a powerful speech at the ICJ, I know the figures are now higher but it gives an insight into the loss of life, dignity and human rights - here is an extract from the last section:

“On the basis of the current figures, on average 247 Palestinians are being killed and are at risk of being killed each day, many of them literally blown to pieces. They include 48 mothers each day, two every hour and over 117 children each day, leaving Unicef to call Israel’s actions a war on children.”

“On current rates, which show no sign of abating, each day over 3 medics, 2 teachers, more than one UN employee and more than one journalist will be killed, many while at work or in what appeared to be targeted attacks on their family homes or where they are sheltered.”

“The risk of famine will increase each day. Each day, an average of 629 people will be wounded, some multiple times over as they move from place to place desperately seeking sanctuary.”

Each day over 10 Palestinian children will have one or both legs amputated, many without anaesthetic. Each day, on current rates, an average 3900 Palestinian homes will be damaged or destroyed, more mass graves will be dug, more cemeteries will be bulldozed and bombed, denying even the dead any dignity or peace.”

"Each day ambulances, hospitals and medics will continue to be attacked and killed. The first responders who have spent three months without international assistance trying to dig families out of the rubble with their bare hands will continue to be targeted. On current figures, one will be killed almost every second day, sometimes in attacks launched against those attending the scene to rescue the wounded.”

“Each day yet more desperate people will be forced to relocate from where they are sheltering or will be bombed in places they have been told to evacuate to. Entire multigenerational families will be obliterated.”

Speech at the ICJ:

Economist Article on the Real Death Toll:
https://www.economist.com/interactive/middle-east-and-africa/2025/05/08/how-many-people-have-died-in-gaza

Edited

Nobody said all the victims are Hamas, child soldiers, human shields. It’s really hard to take people seriously who make up stuff as they go along.

Do you deny that Hamas use child soldiers and that they will be included in child fatality figures if (sadly) killed? No one is saying they deserve to die either before you try to spin that. It is absolutely dispicable that this has been allowed to go on with so much international oversight in that small region. Don’t you agree?

Do you deny that Hamas used human shields? Same as above applies?

Do you deny that the press reports what Hamas tells them before verifying it as to whether it’s actually true? Surely that is how journalism is supposed to work?

Still waiting for footage showing the IDF sniping children btw? Did I miss it? Again before anyone spins that, I don’t particularly want to see footage of children being attacked but as this has been a big part of the narrative on here, there must be some evidence that it has happened other than 2nd or 3rd hand reports seeing as it seems that most things happening in Gaza are immediately live streamed?

According to the article I posted earlier of military experts who were in Gaza, buildings are evacuated before strikes (although it seems some Gazans don’t leave), so how is it being estimated that people are under the rubble?

Most buildings in Rafah were booby trapped with tunnels underneath from that article so how many fatalities would that have caused? How is that being counted?

That is a very powerful speech from that Irish barrister (she mentions March 2025 so assuming it’s from this year) and the numbers are horrific but absolutely no mention of Hamas. Almost as if they don’t exist. Also no mention of UNWRA’s links to Hamas and Islamic Jihad. This report is from December 2024.

https://www.unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/UNW-129-%E2%80%94-The-Unholy-Alliance-%E2%80%94-2025-01-09-%E2%80%94-Web-%E2%80%94-Singles.pdf

Has any of this been refuted?

https://www.unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/UNW-129-%E2%80%94-The-Unholy-Alliance-%E2%80%94-2025-01-09-%E2%80%94-Web-%E2%80%94-Singles.pdf

AIBUHere · 03/06/2025 23:23

ssd · 03/06/2025 22:08

Quoted directly from the BBC news tonight, before showing footage from inside Gaza, specifically of people trying to access aid

"Israel doesn't allow international journalists including the BBC to report from inside Gaza, but we rely on trusted local freelancers"

Yet @Biscuitsformeandyou knows better.

Trusted freelancers? Like the Hamas family in the recent documentary that was pulled?

Whatsinanamehey · 03/06/2025 23:26

Whatsinanamehey · 03/06/2025 23:21

Israel spend so much money on Hasbara or PR, Whatever you want to call it but all their spokespeople still do such a shitty job in their interviews. That's because no matter how hard you try, you can't sanitise war crimes or a genocide.

The only one who could hold his ground a little bit in interviews was Eylon Levy and Netanyahu fired him because he criticised his wife, what a shambles.

ssd · 04/06/2025 07:39

AIBUHere · 03/06/2025 23:23

Trusted freelancers? Like the Hamas family in the recent documentary that was pulled?

I'm guessing you would prefer if no news at all came out of Gaza and Israel could keep the genocide they are committing in Gaza secret?

I can imagine after the mistake they made in that documentary they will have double checked who they are using as freelancers.

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:29

Biscuitsformeandyou · 03/06/2025 21:41

I get what you are saying. But if Israel -Palestine got the same amount of attention as those other conflicts than we wouldn't be talking about it and you wouldn't be hearing my opinion on it. As basically nobody would be discussing it. And it certainty wouldn't dominate the news.

I disagree @Biscuitsformeandyou . It's the worst humanitarian issue in possibly a generation. We'd still be speaking about it.

Two things that I think today:

  • Aid needs to be distributed by an agency that has the experience delivering in extreme fields and in famine situations. I'd even add in a UN peacekeeping force.
  • independent media needs to be allowed in. Again war and humanitarian correspondents know how to operate in these environments.

These would benefit both Israel and Palestine. Neither side can be blamed for x, y and z.

I heard Cindy McCain say that the UNWFP believes that the IDF has fired on civilians in recent incidents.

Biscuitsformeandyou · 04/06/2025 10:40

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:29

I disagree @Biscuitsformeandyou . It's the worst humanitarian issue in possibly a generation. We'd still be speaking about it.

Two things that I think today:

  • Aid needs to be distributed by an agency that has the experience delivering in extreme fields and in famine situations. I'd even add in a UN peacekeeping force.
  • independent media needs to be allowed in. Again war and humanitarian correspondents know how to operate in these environments.

These would benefit both Israel and Palestine. Neither side can be blamed for x, y and z.

I heard Cindy McCain say that the UNWFP believes that the IDF has fired on civilians in recent incidents.

Gaza casualty figures: approximately 45,000-50,000 deaths over 15 months according to Hamas-controlled health ministry

Syria: over 500,000 confirmed deaths across 13 years. That's roughly 38,000 deaths per year sustained over more than a decade. Circa 13m people displaced.

Yemen: 377,000+ deaths since 2014, including 150,000+ from deliberate starvation and disease.

Tigray, Ethiopia: estimates range from 200,000 to 600,000 deaths in just two years (2020-2022). Even taking the conservative estimate of 200,000, that's 100,000 deaths per year - still more than double Gaza's annual rate.

Democratic Republic of Congo: 6+ million deaths since 1998, with 5.2 million currently displaced.

So no, Gaza is not "the worst humanitarian issue in possibly a generation."

The fact that people believe it is demonstrates exactly the point about disproportionate attention and selective concern that I've been making throughout this thread.

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:45

I have posed information on targeted shooting (sniping) previously.
I haven't genuinely come across any references to Hamas child soldiers except for here. However I do know Israel has arrested many children. I presume they are all child soldiers.

That speech formed part of a case against Israel. So it will focus on Israel. That's the whole point of it, same as any other argument in a court case.

I saw a video yesterday of a baby and a child sibling trapped under rubble...widely available.

Finally, the evacuation orders to leave buildings are a null point. Bombing residential buildings is prohibited under international law. Same principle as I outlined earlier as with hospitals. They're not supposed to be bombed.

Also people have nowhere to go. It's complete rubble. People are living in ruins. There are not enough tents because nothing has been allowed in. People are also injured, disabled and extremely weak from malnutrition and moving physically can be nigh on impossible.

Lets try to extend our humanity into a woman there with small children:
If my home was standing and I was asked to leave but I have nothing else, no tent, and the buildings near to me are shells, the tent estates are full...where do I go? What do I do?

Israel has also bombed tents of displaced people let's not forget.

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:47

Biscuitsformeandyou · 04/06/2025 10:40

Gaza casualty figures: approximately 45,000-50,000 deaths over 15 months according to Hamas-controlled health ministry

Syria: over 500,000 confirmed deaths across 13 years. That's roughly 38,000 deaths per year sustained over more than a decade. Circa 13m people displaced.

Yemen: 377,000+ deaths since 2014, including 150,000+ from deliberate starvation and disease.

Tigray, Ethiopia: estimates range from 200,000 to 600,000 deaths in just two years (2020-2022). Even taking the conservative estimate of 200,000, that's 100,000 deaths per year - still more than double Gaza's annual rate.

Democratic Republic of Congo: 6+ million deaths since 1998, with 5.2 million currently displaced.

So no, Gaza is not "the worst humanitarian issue in possibly a generation."

The fact that people believe it is demonstrates exactly the point about disproportionate attention and selective concern that I've been making throughout this thread.

Syria and Yemen have both received huge amounts of press coverage in recent years.
And hadn't Israel bombed both fairly recently?
Didn't Israel occupy the Golan Heights?

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:47

And it is I'm afraid. You're wrong on that score.

Biscuitsformeandyou · 04/06/2025 10:52

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:47

And it is I'm afraid. You're wrong on that score.

Oh come on, the media coverage is utterly nowhere near comparable. And you can say I am wrong, but I have provided evidence, you are just going off your beliefs

Biscuitsformeandyou · 04/06/2025 10:54

YourOnMute · 04/06/2025 10:47

Syria and Yemen have both received huge amounts of press coverage in recent years.
And hadn't Israel bombed both fairly recently?
Didn't Israel occupy the Golan Heights?

Ah yes, of all the things you remember about Yeman and Syria, it is that Israel bombed the Houthis and took Syrian land after the fall of Assad. Says it all really.

AIBUHere · 04/06/2025 14:11

Where is the video footage of the IDF sniping children?

Child soldiers

www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/AHRC46NGO42_050321.pdf

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/mde150352004en.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780613

Residential and civilian infrastructure such as hospitals, schools, mosques which has been used for military purposes are legitimate military targets and bombing then is NOT prohibited under international law.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions

What is your view on Hamas booby trapping almost every building, which also often have tunnels underneath, which would take years to dismantle, and risk the lives of soldiers, if done by hand?

I

Use of child suicide bombers by Palestinian militant groups - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 04/06/2025 15:10

AIBUHere · 04/06/2025 14:11

Where is the video footage of the IDF sniping children?

Child soldiers

www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/AHRC46NGO42_050321.pdf

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/mde150352004en.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780613

Residential and civilian infrastructure such as hospitals, schools, mosques which has been used for military purposes are legitimate military targets and bombing then is NOT prohibited under international law.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions

What is your view on Hamas booby trapping almost every building, which also often have tunnels underneath, which would take years to dismantle, and risk the lives of soldiers, if done by hand?

I

Jerusalem post is a biased publication and they do not supply any verification or proof. How exactly and where were the photographs obtained or any context. It is not balanced at all.

Children attending hostages does not make them terrorists - Hamas put hostages in family homes. Children being in tunnels again shows some Hamas soldiers have kids, there is nothing to indicate that these children have been recruited. I have read that Hamas will use children as messengers which is awful but again does not make the child an armed combatant.

The other reports seem to mostly pertain to 20+ years ago and point to a very small number of cases (10 cases in 4 years) and again mostly references teenagers. It seems Hamas leadership made several statements over 20 years ago that child soldiers should never be used - at least one Hamas leader ignored that and said that people are adults from 16 but he died 21 years ago which might account for the lack of recent reports. Completely wrong and abhorrent but the small numbers (and none that I can see that relate to the last few years) give no justification for the murder and maiming of 50,000 children! Not one child’s body was reported to have been armed, even the IDF did not claim self defence or that kids were firing weapons - you are pretty much clutching at straws there. Please stop trying to justify children as legitimate war targets on a site for mothers, it is abhorrent.

Israel have been cited as abusing children by using them as human shields and torturing children to get them to agree to be informants!

https://www.refworld.org/reference/annualreport/cscoal/2004/en/64756

Kindatired · 04/06/2025 19:51

@AIBUHere You’re continuing to post on a thread dedicated to the 9 children of Dr Alan Al Najarr in a way that appears to intimate that the children are responsible for their own deaths. That they are in some way associated with Hamas. The IDF is the direct cause of these children being burned alive. The IDF knew they would be there and they burned them alive and blew up their father and brother despite this.
You’re saying that it’s ok to either exterminate them while the IDF bomb the tunnels because it’s too risky for the IDF. So it’s better to kill the kids or displace them to concentration camps is the implication so the IDF can carry on..
But if you use this logic , it could argued that attacking civilians and taking hostages is ok if it fulfils the war objectives. Because all wars have civilian casualties.But everyone acknowledges that Hamas are brutal terrorists and this type of attack cannot be condoned. So why is it ok for Isral? On the scale of depravity, Hamas were leading, but on the scale of numbers it’s Israel and the gao in depravity level is narrowing by the day.

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