This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/08/idf-has-long-history-of-denying-involvement-in-civilian-killings

The utterly heartbreaking thing about starting these threads is how simple it is to find the opening link.

When will they stop?

Please stop trying to put words into my mouth. I'm saying what I have said and nothing more.

You are not just "questioning why Israel is breaking international law" by denying that Hamas use their tunnels to hide and store weapons, you are swallowing the Hamas narrative.

If you accept the truth of the UN finding weapons in schools as far back as 2014 why would anything change in Hamas methods a decade later?

Exactly this. It is so sickening and I'm not sure how the 'balanced' version of the reporting makes it any better. It's a pathetic and failed attempt to sanitise their war crimes. It also once again highlights how the IDF operate on a policy of shoot first with all Palestinians.

Nobody can claim that the IDF do not target civilians when you see news like this. This is a war crime, they were not killed in an attack they were just picked off. How cowardly (and immoral)to shoot an unarmed practically immobile pensioner.

Why are you pretending that Israel is acting in good faith? What - if anything - would it take for you to accept that the IDF have no intention of focussing on Hamas but are quite content to pay sloppy lip service to that aim whilst slaughtering thousands of civilians?

I'm saying that if you are justifying blowing up 36 hospitals because Hamas are hiding there I'd expect that you have seen evidence that Hamas are actually in the hospitals at the time they have been blown up and not over a decade before. Otherwise why on earth would you be defending something like that, especially when you are here talking about reputable sources but hark back to 2014 for yours?

Vulnerable people have been killed, hospitals are supposed to be protected. I would expect everybody to want to see independent evidence for each and every medical facility that has been destroyed. It's not a game. They are real people who have been killed, real people who have been denied medical treatment. 136 strikes on Gaza hospitals in 2024, that's more than 1 every 3 days. Of course we should all expect that there is evidence that this is needed otherwise we are looking at horrendous war crimes. Do you think evidence should be provided for every strike on a school, medical facilities , aid facilities etc or do you think Israel saying Hamas are there should be enough? Also do you think that Israel should have to prove that destroying medical facilities was the only way to deal with Hamas given the horrendous consequences for innocent civilians when medical facilities are destroyed?

You can't just say that though? Why would anything change blow them all up! Are you for real? What sort of standards do you have at all? These are medical facilities, treating the most vulnerable people in society and you don't care if there is any evidence that Hamas are actually there, evidence from 2 hospitals over a decade ago is enough. There aren't words honestly.

Because I’m not anti Israel, I don’t assume that they would destroy hospitals for no good reason. They give warnings before attacking hospitals to try to limit the civilian casualties - like the latest hospital destroyed where there was only one civilian killed indefinitely as a result of the IDF actions.

I do believe that the goal of the IDF is to destroy Hamas not Palestinian civilians. After all they weren’t killing civilians before October 7th so it is not like it is their stated or actual intention to kill Palestinians. But it is the stated and actual intention of Hamas to destroy all Jews in Gaza. Something they are prepared to act upon which is why they need to be destroyed.

Why do the you think the IDF / Israeli govt is an unreliable source but not Hamas which is known to publish grossly inflated fatality data?

It is always amusing (depressing) to me to see so much anti-Israel rhetoric. Why the obsession with a tiny country in the Middle East which is surrounded by Arab states wanting to destroy it? Oh yes - because it’s a country of Jews. I see no media obsession / protesting in the streets / social media outrage about Sudan where civil war has killed tens of thousands, displaced 13 million and triggered the world’s worst humanitarian crisis. That is ethnic genocide, not Israel where Israeli Arabs hold senior positions in government, banks, major corporations etc.
Ask yourself, why do you only talk about the Israel/Gaza war and not the many other wars around the world?

I don’t assume that they would destroy hospitals for no good reason. They give warnings before attacking hospitals to try to limit the civilian casualties - like the latest hospital destroyed where there was only one civilian killed indefinitely as a result of the IDF actions.

@Twiglets1 do you even listen to yourself? Do you realise how you sound to normal people who in no way would ever justify bombing a hospital. The last functioning hospital in that part of Gaza. The church of England who oversee the running of Al Ahli hospital have asked Israel for proof of their claims which they have not provided.

I hope you realise that some of us find your constant minimisation of Israeli war crimes inflicted on the Palestinians, both dehumanising and sickening.

This poor poor man. Imagine hearing the cries of children stuck under the rubble of their bombed homes and the IDF denying them time to try and rescue them. How will these people ever recover from such trauma?

https://news.sky.com/story/palestinian-man-forced-to-abandon-loved-ones-trapped-beneath-the-rubble-after-idf-warning-13349616

And twiglet before you start praising the IDF for warning him, he wasn't warned when the building he was in was bombed. He miraculously survived the bombing but was cruelly warned to leave afterwards so that many of those trapped alive from his family could not be saved.

There were fifteen children that were trapped under the rubble of the home Israel bombed. Some clearly alive as their cries could be heard but the IDF wouldn't allow civil defence to try and save them. Would some of you still be trying to minimise this and the atrocities of the IDF if those children were Israeli and not Palestinian? I think not.

It is depressing to me to see the anti-Israel rhetoric too & the refusal to admit anything negative about Hamas despite so much evidence of their massacre of Jews and stated aim to keep on attacking & killing Jews in Gaza. I will admit the IDF go too far and probably have bombed some public institutions like hospitals without sufficient proof they were Hamas enclaves. But will they admit the IDF have good reason to be suspicious about Hamas criminal activity within hospitals, schools etc … No.

And so boring when the personal insults invariably begin on every thread … no awareness of how it comes across when people can’t debate a contentious issue politely.

I'm normal and I agree with @Twiglets1.

I do believe that the goal of the IDF is to destroy Hamas not Palestinian civilians. After all they weren’t killing civilians before October 7th so it is not like it is their stated or actual intention to kill Palestinians. But it is the stated and actual intention of Hamas to destroy all Jews in Gaza. Something they are prepared to act upon which is why they need to be destroyed.

This is just so wrong. Tens of Palestinian children and 100s of adults killed in 2023 before Oct 7 but they weren't killing civilians? That reeks of there are no innocents.

The Israeli defence minister literally said 'We will destroy everything'. That is their stated aim and they are acting on it yet you support them.

You accuse others of having no self awareness because you make claims that you can't support with evidence that isn't from a decade ago but 'personal insults are so boring' and you think you are the one who can 'debate''?

Thank you @quantumbutterfly

It’s not easy to put yourself in the firing line of people who can’t debate a political issue without resorting to personal attacks.

@Mylegishangingoff never have I said “there are no innocents” so stop putting words into my mouth. Of course there are many innocents in Gaza - Palestinian & Israeli.

I don’t believe the IDF have ever targeted Palestinian civilians by specifically trying murder them but if I’m wrong you can explain how I’m wrong. What is undisputed is that Hamas have targeted Israeli civilians by specifically trying to murder them.

And you do realise that pre-October 7 Hamas also relentlessly bombed Israel? And that Hamas officials have declared total war on Israel and want its complete distraction along with annihilation of all Jews and Israelis? It’s interesting that you don’t focus on that. There is bad on both sides, and unfortunately innocent people get caught up in war. That’s the case everywhere in the world. Palestines are victims of war, they are not the target of genocide or whatever ridiculous terms people want to throw around.

Totally agree that there is bad on both sides & unfortunately innocent people get caught up in war. Innocent Israeli civilians got caught up in Hamas starting a war on October 7th and now innocent Palestinians are being caught up in that war.

I don’t believe the IDF have ever targeted Palestinian civilians by specifically trying murder them but if I’m wrong you can explain how I’m wrong.

They shot their own hostages. They shot aid workers and tried to bury the evidence. They have a kill zone around Gaza. There are (conservatively) 40,000 people who have died as a direct result of the actions of the IDF.

@Twiglets1 can you honestly say that every one of those dead 40,000 men, women, children and babies were terrorists, sheltering terrorists or the result of faulty intelligence? If you do please write it down on this thread. Thanks.

@Twiglets1 the elderly infirm man and his wife from posts earlier were shot in the street. This is confirmed in the TImes of Israel.
How is shooting two unarmed vulnerable people anything but targeting civilians.

After all they weren’t killing civilians before October 7th so it is not like it is their stated or actual intention to kill Palestinians.

This is what you said? They killed a 2 year old child in the same year before Oct 7, how is that not killing civillians? What am I supposed to think when you are clearly denying these deaths and their stated aim. 'We will destroy everything', it's 4 words yet so many people seem unable to understand them even though they are following through right in front of us.

If your husband said 'I will destroy everything' then went on to flatten everything in your house would you be calling it an accident, saying he was actually just looking for the remote and happened to flatten everything while doing so.

I'm sorry but I can't believe that it's some kind of accident that Israel are following through with their stated aim.

I haven’t had a chance to look at that particular news story but will take a look later today and respond to it.

If you want to ask me to reflect on a story about the deliberate killing of a 2 year old then please link to a reputable source as MartyMcFly did and I will take a look, read the account of what happened & come to a conclusion about whether the incident could conceivably have been an accident or whether it was murder.

Don’t be inflammatory I have never said that every one of the Palestinian dead were terrorists. I have referred many times to innocent Palestinian civilians so it’s ridiculous to suggest I think they are all terrorists or sheltering terrorists.

There can be faulty intelligence in war however and there can also be something called collateral damage. I apologise if that seems a harsh way to describe dead civilians but it is a well known consequence of war.